2nd All Grain Batch!

So I started my second all grain batch just now! Doughed in @ 151. I was shooting for 152. So I took my water at around 166-167 and by the time I got done with it all, the temps were reading 149, so I added 2 quarts @ around 200 to bring it up to 151. Not bad, I'll subtract 2 quarts from the sparge water.

Any thoughts on the recipe:
Grains:
12 lbs Marris Otter
2 lbs Crystal 60

Wyeast London ESB #1968

Hops:
-- 2 oz. Willamette (60 min)
-- 1 oz. UK Kent Goldings (15 min)
-- 1 oz. UK Kent Goldings (5 min)


Yeast:
Wyeast London ESB #1968

I took the recipe from an All Grain ESB and just bumped up the grains a bit to compensate for my efficiency (my last brew was pretty low at 72% and the beer seems very weak, but tastes absolutely amazing)

Ok, just a little update! Things went well! I opened up the cooler to find 150.1! I'll take that as a win!

Also, the beer is very dark, a lot darker then my other all grain batch. Should be good!!!

Only thing I'm not sure about, my mash out temp, ended up throwing it in at around 166-168, its supposed to be 170 but I totally missed that and it seems the grains are going to be in low 160s from my guess, I think it'll be ok. I'm definately not as worried as I was on my last brew...anyways, Cheers!

How long did it take you to sparge? It takes about 10 minutes at 170 or above to denature the enzymes so if you batch sparged and put the runnings in the pot and started heating you probably didn't really mashout at all. Not a big deal. If your sparge took you a couple hours, then mashout is needed as the enzymes would still be trying to convert sugars and your intended profile wouldn't be what you got.

RM-MN said:

How long did it take you to sparge? It takes about 10 minutes at 170 or above to denature the enzymes so if you batch sparged and put the runnings in the pot and started heating you probably didn't really mashout at all. Not a big deal. If your sparge took you a couple hours, then mashout is needed as the enzymes would still be trying to convert sugars and your intended profile wouldn't be what you got.

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I did 60 minutes @ ~152,
Then "batch sparged" @ roughly 160 so I might not have mashed out, but definately need more liquid. Now I'm at around 7 gallons and I did a SG (preboil - right?) @ 1.052. Its now boiling! So we'll see!

If you batch sparge, there's no need for a real mashout- the wort is plenty dilute so your sugar is extracted just fine and you start the boil immediately so there's no need to "set" the mash profile- the boil does that for you. Let us know how it turns out!

How much liquid you need for the sparge depends on how much you were able to get on the first runnings and on how much you boil off. I keep a slow rolling boil in a narrow pot and boil off about half a gallon in the hour. You might do more. If you don't boil off enough you can continue boiling.

Super jealous that you can start a brew 2:45 on a friday!

.. been daydreaming about homebrew for what seems like hours.

I wouldn't worry too much about a mash out. I don't think many people really do them anymore but someone can correct me if I am wrong about that. I did them for a while and then stopped and didn't notice much of a difference. Seems to me you made some sort of hoppy english style amber or something like that. Do you know what your efficiency was? Seems like it should be a pretty tasty beer. Hope it turns out well!

rdann87 said:

Super jealous that you can start a brew 2:45 on a friday!

.. been daydreaming about homebrew for what seems like hours.

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I suppose it would make you very jealous if I told you I started a brew on a Tuesday at 7:30 in the morning then? How about if I mentioned starting one on the following day at 8:00 AM?

I also suppose your back feels fine if you lift a 50 pound sack of grain? Now I'm jealous.

RM-MN said:

How much liquid you need for the sparge depends on how much you were able to get on the first runnings and on how much you boil off. I keep a slow rolling boil in a narrow pot and boil off about half a gallon in the hour. You might do more. If you don't boil off enough you can continue boiling.

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Exactly, I actually make more sparge water than I need, (I fly sparge however), and often times I leave some liquid in the mash tun that I did not need. Sometimes if I boil off more than expected I'll even add a bit of water or some wort if it's no more than half way through the start of the boil. Just tiny little adjustments, a quart or what have you, nothing too scientific.

RM-MN said:

I suppose it would make you very jealous if I told you I started a brew on a Tuesday at 7:30 in the morning then? How about if I mentioned starting one on the following day at 8:00 AM?

I also suppose your back feels fine if you lift a 50 pound sack of grain? Now I'm jealous.

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I work nights, there have been times where I got home early and brewed and startd a brew at 2:30 am!!! Anytime is a good time to brew!

rdann87 said:

Super jealous that you can start a brew 2:45 on a friday!

.. been daydreaming about homebrew for what seems like hours.

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Yeah, I know! I went into work and we only had a couple of hours, so they let us go very early. I went to straight to the LHBS and bought some grains!

Hopper5000 said:

I wouldn't worry too much about a mash out. I don't think many people really do them anymore but someone can correct me if I am wrong about that. I did them for a while and then stopped and didn't notice much of a difference. Seems to me you made some sort of hoppy english style amber or something like that. Do you know what your efficiency was? Seems like it should be a pretty tasty beer. Hope it turns out well!

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I was going for a Extra Special Bitter, from an all grain recipe from northern brewer. However I bumped some stuff to compensate for system (last time it seems I didn't do as well). I ended up at 1.066 and was shooting for 1.053, oh well. I guess I am improving? I'll post more pics in a few minutes.

So why do people batch sparge or how? Is there a temperature range they are shooting for? I don't know how I would end up with the correct amount of water if I didn't "batch Sparge" (have other water heated up). I'm sorry I'm such a noob and for the noob questions. But I'm at a little loss, do people use more water for their initial strike water?

I think that 2 lbs of crystal might have been a tad too much. I'm sure the beer will turn out ok... I would imagine that the beer might be a little on the sweet side and your terminal gravity might end up a little high. Say in the 1.020's. but that's ok. Looks good!

More pics from the brew

guitarist_713 said:

I think that 2 lbs of crystal might have been a tad too much. I'm sure the beer will turn out ok... I would imagine that the beer might be a little on the sweet side and your terminal gravity might end up a little high. Say in the 1.020's. but that's ok. Looks good!

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Oh well, hopefully it'll be ok - who knows...would you normally do something lower, like 1 lbs? I thought about doing that, but randomly decided to go for 2 cause I was upping the Marris Otter. Oh well, it was a relaxing day compared to the other all grain day I had and I'll adjust from there.

So why do people batch sparge or how? Is there a temperature range they are shooting for? I don't know how I would end up with the correct amount of water if I didn't "batch Sparge" (have other water heated up). I'm sorry I'm such a noob and for the noob questions. But I'm at a little loss, do people use more water for their initial strike water?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what your question is. You asked why/how people batch sparge but they you said you don't see how you could not batch sparge? Are you just trying to see how other people batch sparge?

Based on your setup (what I can see from the pics), you are using a cooler with a false bottom?

There is a way to sparge called fly sparging. It works if you have a false bottom or some sort of filter on the bottom connected to your spout (in your mash tun). You first recirculate the strike water to settle the grain bed down so a minimal/no amount of grain particles get into the boil, as these can cause astringency. You want to recirculate at the same speed as you are going to runoff your sparge.

Once you are running clear then you start draining into your boil kettle and adding your sparge water. You want to leave about an inch or 2 on top of the grain bed in order to prevent it from collapsing and causing channeling. Channeling is where the sparge water just starts running through cracks and doesn't properly rinse the grains.

You want to top off the water gently and some people use a sparge arm. I personally use a collander pot that you would use for steaming vegetables. You want to sparge slowly and this process usually takes me between 30 to 60min.

Once you runn out of sparge water you can just let the water drain fully and you don't have to worry about keeping it above the grain bed.

Efficiency is supposed to be better and you get less poarticulate matter in the brew vs batch sparging.

Hopper5000, thank you for the response! I guess I was trying to ask - when I "batch sparge," I try to heat up an amount of water to hit the magical temperature of 170. Then I let sit for 10 minutes vorlough (SP?) and collect the runnings and combine them with the runnings from my first sparge. I guess the term I was looking for was mashout, is that what the 170 degrees mean?

Here is my process:
1. Heat water
2. Put water into cooler w/ bazooka tube
3. Put grains in cooler
4. Let mash for 60 minutes
5. Vorlaugh, drain put into brew kettle
6. Put more water in grains, let sit for 10 minutes
7. Drain and combine with wort from previous batch

Is this basically right?

Ya if you are mashing out you want to let it sit for a bit at 170 to denature the enzymes.

It is also the recommended temperature (168 to 170F) people use for their sparge water in general, no matter what method you are using.

It seems like you are attempting a mashout and batch sparge at the same time which is totally fine. You don't want to go much above 170F because that can draw tannin's out of the grains and can give some astringency in the final product.

I believe when you batch sparge you are supposed to stir the sparge water when it's in the grains to make sure you get the sugars into suspension. The you let it all settle for 10 to 20 min. That's how I did it when I have done batch sparging.

When I batch sparged I would dump half the sparge water in and stir, let it sit then drain and then repeat the process again.

Do you know what your efficiency was? If your getting above 70% (in the kettle) then the method you used is probably fine and you don't need to change anything.

Vorlaugh is just a fancy work for recirculating all hobbies need their terminology...

Just wanted to reiterate the fact that mashing out before doing a batch sparge is totally unnecessary, but not harmful.

Hopper5000 said:

Ya if you are mashing out you want to let it sit for a bit at 170 to denature the enzymes.

It is also the recommended temperature (168 to 170F) people use for their sparge water in general, no matter what method you are using.

It seems like you are attempting a mashout and batch sparge at the same time which is totally fine. You don't want to go much above 170F because that can draw tannin's out of the grains and can give some astringency in the final product.

I believe when you batch sparge you are supposed to stir the sparge water when it's in the grains to make sure you get the sugars into suspension. The you let it all settle for 10 to 20 min. That's how I did it when I have done batch sparging.

When I batch sparged I would dump half the sparge water in and stir, let it sit then drain and then repeat the process again.

Do you know what your efficiency was? If your getting above 70% (in the kettle) then the method you used is probably fine and you don't need to change anything.

Vorlaugh is just a fancy work for recirculating all hobbies need their terminology...

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Ok, thank you for the explanation. I think I get it now, Batch Sparging and the Mashout are not but can be the same thing. I got 74% efficiency according to some calculator. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me!

ya no problem, 74 is pretty good so I wouldn't change anything. i would see what you get each time as this can change slightly. then you know what your efficiency number is and you can base your recipe's off of that.

yes you are correct, they are not the same thing but in batch sparging it can serve the same function.

Thought I would give an update! I bottled last night and it actually turned out really good! I tastes really good and fermented down to 1.012 ~ 7.1% ABV! Has a nice color (I think) and a good taste. Hopefully it Carbs up, I did the 1/2 teaspoon for every 12 ounces. I think from now on I'll go ahead and use the bottling bucket and go with the 5 ounces of Dextrose boiled in water. Also, does anyone seem to have problems getting carbonation if you use Irish Moss?

If you didn't use a bottling bucket then what did you use? Shouldn't be a problem with irish moss that only helps drop chill haze proteins out of the beer during the boil and doesn't impact the yeast.

In the future you can use calculators to determine how much sugar to add to your brew. It's much more acccurate to get the proper c02 volumes vs the standard packets they give you at the LHBS. There's one on brewersfriend.com and tastybrew.com that are helpful. The c02 volumes accorsding to style are a little off on there for some styles so you should look that up somewhere else.

Glad the brew turned out well.

I mean I didn't use my Ale Pail with spigot in the bottom, because it has beer fermenting in it right now

So I either have to invest in another fermentor bucket or only brew 1 batch of beer at a time.

So evidently, it attenuated pretty low. I checked out the calculator at brewersfriend.com and it said I should have expected it to be around 1.022, but I was at 1.012 - any ideas? I'm starting to wonder if my system isn't flawed. This is only my 2nd All Grain Batch, so whos knows. I'm really trying to just to relax and not think about it, but I can't help but over analyze everything.

what was your fermentation temp? It's not unusual for your brews to attenuate more than the what it says the yeast is supposed to do. that wyeast strain it pretty hearty for an english strain. what was your og and your final yeast attenuation? Every recipe calculator is just guessing...

OG was 1.066 and FG was 1.012. Calculators said 1.022, as did some others who commented here.

yeah that's pretty high for that yeast strainbut i think I have getten about 80% with that one too. if it tastes good i wouldnt worry about it.