Volkswagen?

I am in the market for a car. So far, I have liked VW jetta and golf. Are the reliability horror stories true? I have also looked at a Ford Focus and a Chevy Cruze. I did not like the Focus compared to the Chevy or the VWs. The Cruze was nice but it seemed to have too many blind spots.

I work in a Ford, VW, and Audi dealership as a Ford tech. Honestly, I (personally) would stay far away from the VW's, especially the newer ones. We have license plates memorized because they are always in the shop. It seems like they are never in for simple things (like oil changes and such) and the bill is usually very high due to the repairs needed. From what I have seen, you can't even do your own oil change on the newer VW's/Audi's, unless you don't mind the oil change light constantly telling you it's required. I believe the newer ones require the use of the VW specific scan tool (costing around $15K I believe) to reset the oil change reminder.

I actually drive a Ford Focus (2007, IMHO the best year) and I don't see any difference in quality between the Focus and the Jetta/Golf. The VW's are usually around twice the amount than I would think they would be worth, but that's just my opinion. As for reliability, the only Ford products we see over and over are the Ford Superduty's for engine concerns (but those, before the 6.7L, were built by International), but the VW's and Audi's keep comming back! The Focus' (2005 and newer) are pretty bullet proof and I haven't seen any that have required any major repair, however, they do have a common problem with the front stabilizer bar links wearing out quickly, but they are inexpensive and easy to fix and don't pose a serious hazard. I believe the new links have been updated to help prevent premature wear.
I have not done any work to mine except oil changes, tire replacements, and one replacement of the front stabilizer bar links, 2007 @60K miles.

I can't speak much about the Cruze, however I am a Ford guy, so I think you know what I would say.

I have a feeling this may start a argument between people, so before any arguments, I should say that these are my own opinions, not facts.

What reliability horror stories?

I think most problems can be from the dealer network. It's hard finding a good one that won't screw you or never admit that they don't know what's wrong or why, yet charge the bejesus out of you. Best bet is finding an independent and only go to a dealer for warranty or recall work if that should pop up.

No offense Beninan. I'm sure you guys do fine work. But around by me, every dealer is suspect. I've had work done at some of them and I've been charged for things that I latter found out were NEVER done. So, I now do all my own work. If I screw it up so be it. My case isn't isolated at all. Being an enthusiast, I've come across others with similar stories and words of warnings. In my area and across the country. It's just like Home Brewing (or anything else), tons of opinions, different ways of doing it and everyone thinking they are right.

First, I'm somewhat biased and a VW nut (of sorts). I'm not that well versed on the newer VW's. I have a MKIII Jetta ('97) which has about 200K on it and is just fine for a car with that many miles. I also have a Corrado with 120K but it's just a weekend car. Noth of which I do my own work on. I was never fond of the MKIV's. As far as the V's & VI's, I don't know. Too new for me

The oil change reminder can be changed, but you don't need the VAG 15K "tool" to do it. Find someone that has Vag-Com (about a $300 software cable package) that can do everything the dealer tool can and better. Some dealers use it over the VW supplied one. It is that good.

Check out the forums on www.vwvortex.com for a little more research. Lot's of good info there. But there's a lot of crap too. You need to do some leg work to find the answers and ultimately the right car for you.

I could tell you to get a VW and you'd love it. But would you take my word if I told you a cooler w/ a copper manifold is best for a MLT?

I was recently in the market for a car. My first stop was to visit my mechanic and see what he thought. Obviously, I trust my mechanic, but he told me to stay away from VW and Audi. He said that their quality has taken a serious dive lately. Not usually the engine, but mostly the major peripherals like the power steering, etc. And I also talked to a couple of people at work who have them, pretty much got mixed reviews, either great reliability or the worst.

My mechanic also told me that Volvos are pretty good but the turbos can get a bit sketchy if you can't verify that the oil has been changed regularly. Saabs aren't half bad but sometimes you get one thats kind of a lemon, then you have to wait for parts. He did seem pretty fond of the Focus, but my GF has one and it gets kind of uncomfortable for me after awhile. I ended up getting a Subaru, but it was because I got an unbelievable deal on it.

Ki-ri-n said:

The oil change reminder can be changed, but you don't need the VAG 15K "tool" to do it. Find someone that has Vag-Com (about a $300 software cable package) that can do everything the dealer tool can and better. Some dealers use it over the VW supplied one. It is that good.

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Forgot about that, but either way, $300? to reset your oil light? it just seems ridiculous. At least the older ones you could reset it with a sequence of buttons through the instrument cluster.

Every newer car has that for the most part now. All the electronic gobble-dee-gook CAN bus systems. You can find people that have the program and cable for your area that can re-program it for you for a small "fee". Get in with a VW/Audi club and someone will most likely have it. I have it for the older systems and it has been worth it's weight in gold!

Check out this locator if you have to use a VW?Audi scan tool http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4991419-Vag-Com-Locator-searchable-map-style!-Owners-pm-me-your-info-requested-in-the-thread

It does more than that too

sorry, I don't mean to get into an argument on my happy place, but I still don't see the value of "a small fee". You do a simple oil change in your driveway trying to save money, but now you can't reset the oil light without a "small fee". Maybe you have a transmission leak and maybe you repair it yourself, you try to top off your transmission fluid level (which most VW's now take an expensive speciality fluid), Hmm there's no dipstick here, uh oh, you need a special computer scan tool to check the fluid level.
All manufacturers do not want you (the vehicle owner), or other shops other than the dealership working on their products. That is why they require specialized equipment for different repairs. It just seems like VW/Audi/Other German-Euro products have taken it to a whole new level where you can't even think about opening the hood without inserting money into the CD player slot.

It may sound like I'm being harsh, but I'm trying not to be, and I don't mean to be talking trash about VW's/Other German-Euro vehicles. I'm just speaking of how I strongly feel after having to work on these every day.

In fact, I'll probably stop at this post and not read this thread again, due to risk of excessive homebrew consumption/getting aggravated/saying bad things/loosing my job/loosing my certifications.

There's always a lot of VW hate/dislike/complaints. I've owned a 72 Type1 (old bug), my current is a '02 New Beetle, and my wife drives an '07 Rabbit (Golf/MKV..whatever). I personally only drive VW. My Beetle has close to 100k miles and i drive it every day. Aside from anomalies and knowing that the water pump in my model type craps out at 60k, there have been no issues. My wife's Rabbit has been nothing short of reliable. VW are very much a car you can fall in love with.

Yes, they are more expensive.
Yes, you may need to visit the dealer regularly.
No, they don't all have reliability issues.

I speak as a Eurocar lifer. The only 2 American cars i've owned were an 86 Buick Skyhawk that broke down constantly and an 84 Eldorado that had 100% brake failure...in traffic...at a light (and other assorted issues). Granted they were both used and my VWs (not the 72) are both original owners.

With anything, it's different for everyone. Your mileage may vary, to borrow the old line. I suggest you check out VWVortex as someone above mentioned. You can get Vagcom scans for free or just a tip, if you wished to do your own upkeep. Oil changes can be done just about anywhere, but most dealers charge about $60 (in NJ) which is what the small places charge for synthetic (which is what all new VWs require for the warranty) anyway.

Test drive that Golf, or better yet, the GTI. It's got better driveability than most cars in it's price range.

I like Fords, I have a '96 Taurus GL and its been very reliable, except for brakes (had to replace the line to the back brakes, replaced two calipers, and a flexi-line). Working on the front of the engine is difficult, especially replacing the water pump. They are also prone for speed indicator failure. Apart from those problems, which are mostly rust related, no other major problems.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Ford, I heard great things about the Focus and also the new re-released Fiesta. On Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson drove a Fiesta off a landing craft and gave it a decent review.

I wish you luck on the car search! Cars are a money pit, personally though when I get enough money freed up, I'd get a vintage VW, either Beetle or Thing... Simplicity at its best!

I have an Audi and my wife has a TDI Jetta. I would say they are reliable. I read the forums a lot and everything minor issue they say is common happened on my Audi. In every instance I knew what to expect and fixed just about all of it myself. I have the $300 hex-can bus software and it is well worth the money. The nice thing about VW/Audi, you can have total control over the car. With the vag-com, you can change how the dash panel is lit, I can now turn on driving lights without headlights on and I enabled the keyfob to control the windows to roll them up or down with a push of the lock/unlock buttons. The amount of control and changes you can make are unbelievable.

Concerning quality, I am off work today because my A4 was in the shop for a rear cross member. I slid into a curb on Sunday and apparently sheared the bolt connecting the rear spindel to the cross member, bending the cross member into a U. I drove the car on the interstate at 70 mph for two days. When I got a chance to get it to my mechanic last night he could not believe my wheel was still attached to the car. It drove fine just had a slight vibration at speed.

I live in the snow belt so I am a little bias toward Audi performance but I have never enjoyed driving as much as I do in an Audi.

All I have to add here is anecdotal, so take it for what ever you think it's worth. My friend just traded in her Jetta for a Honda Pilot (she was in the market for a bigger car anyways). She loved driving the Jetta, but had what I would call more than the average mechanical issues with it for a car only 4 years old. For the last year it was intermittently (every few weeks) having fuel sending unit malfunctions along with other smaller electrical gremlins (window switches, dome lights, random radio turn offs). The techs would trouble shoot the problems when she brought it in, and they would go away for a couple of weeks before starting back up. They never could give a good reason for the problems other than they had "reset the ECU".

I know VW can make good cars, I've known other people who never had any issues with theirs. Maybe she got a lemon, it happens. My biggest problem with them is the already mentioned routine maintenance. Need an oil change, transmission fluid, brake fluid, wiper blades? gotta see the dealership.

beninan said:

It just seems like VW/Audi/Other German-Euro products have taken it to a whole new level where you can't even think about opening the hood without inserting money into the CD player slot.

It may sound like I'm being harsh, but I'm trying not to be, and I don't mean to be talking trash about VW's/Other German-Euro vehicles. I'm just speaking of how I strongly feel after having to work on these every day.

In fact, I'll probably stop at this post and not read this thread again, due to risk of excessive homebrew consumption/getting aggravated/saying bad things/loosing my job/loosing my certifications.

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Most German engineered cars use a lot of technology or the engineering employs a methodology that is different than that of American manufacturer's. I have owned 3 Audi A4s ('99, '00, '07) and have done all my own maintenance/repairs. VW's are very similar to Audi (in the pre-2003 models at least) and they are not all that difficult to work on. The vag-com is needed more as the vehicles get more and more technology dependent. I have a vag-com and have occasionally used it - it did come in handy for a tranny oil change (need to know the fluid temp for level) and checking some misfires, etc. Virtually everything on the car has a sensor feeding the vag-com. You can do some amazing things with it and it's worth the cash.

When someone asks me about the reliability of VWs or Audis I always say this: "Preventative maintenance is a must. If you slack off on maintenance these cars can snowball really quickly to become a financial burden. But if you take care of the car, it will be a kick ass ride and you'll enjoy owning it." My Audis have had no major issues in their lifetime. The 98 got totaled by a sleeping driver with 145K miles on the odom, the '00 is still in my driveway (wife's car now) with 120K miles and the '07 I got last spring. Everyone has their opinion, but many times they are unfounded or ignorant opinions based on no facts.

If you do your research you will find out that no, you do not have to visit the dealership for transmission fluid, brake fluid, or wiper blades. You can get almost anything online from various vendors.

BTW - there are usually ways you can reset the service reminder yourself. As an example this was posted on a forum for a VW Rabbit:

More detailed version:

1. Keys out of ignition- press and hold in trip odometer reset button "0.0" on right hand side of display
2. Still holding this button down, insert key into ignition and put to the on position without starting the car.
3. Display will read "service now"
4. let go of the "0.0" button and depress the "m" button on the left hand side of the display. this will re-set the service reminder. There is no confirmation on the display other than the words "service now" will disappear.

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I have a New Beetle and its the least reliable car I've ever owned. Small issues and big. The list includes:

1. engine overheated six (!) times before it was fixed
2. AM on the radio went out
3. average replacing the headlights twice a year (at this point the dealer doesn't charge me, but its still annoying)
4. fuel injectors needed to be replaced
5. fuse box sitting on top of the battery has needed to be replaced twice

Its great fun to drive, but remarkably unreliable.

I work with a guy who has a 2000 VW GTI, it has 279k on the odometer, he has had normal maintainance to do, other than that, nothing has broken, granted his is a strippy model, no power windows, no power locks, manual transmission, etc. 2.0L non turbo motor too. I had a 2002 passat, 1.8L turbo 5 speed, other than the motor chewing through coil packs every 2 years, there was never any other issues. I am of the mindset that if you can do without the power crap, and whizbang tecno junk you will have a more reliable car, get a vehicle with a manual trans, and no power anything, there isnt much that can go wrong other than engine electronics or mechanical failures. I personally drive a 180k 2000 honda civic HX, still gets 40 miles to the gallon with the AC on, and drives like new, slow as smoke off ****, but solid, not even a rattle or wind whistle. I think part of it may be that I am a mechanic and am prety anal about maintaining my rides, like replacing bushings etc before they cause a failure or other damage. I see no reason a modern car cannot live a long happy life if you properly maintain it whatever you decide to buy.

If you haven't looked at them already, at least check out the Subarus. They don't have a small Golf sized, but the Impreza is similar to the Jetta size and you can get a hatchback version if that's what you prefer. I've had one for 8 1/2 years with absolutely zero problems (although I have done the recommended routine maintenance).

That said, if I were buying a car now, I'd be very tempted to get one of the TDi VWs or the Golf R (if I could afford it).

I think if you take care of the car it takes care of you.

I bought a 97' VW Jetta and the only issue i had till i traded it in 2008 was i had the starter replaced. Was a great car and i would buy another one, but i bought a Subaru to replace it as i wanted a better car for snow.

So far i am likewise loving my Subaru! If you are in a climate that gets snow i would suggest you look at the Subaru lineup. They have some EXCELLENT cars.

Pappers_ said:

I have a New Beetle and its the least reliable car I've ever owned. Small issues and big. The list includes:

1. engine overheated six (!) times before it was fixed
2. AM on the radio went out
3. average replacing the headlights twice a year (at this point the dealer doesn't charge me, but its still annoying)
4. fuel injectors needed to be replaced
5. fuse box sitting on top of the battery has needed to be replaced twice

Its great fun to drive, but remarkably unreliable.

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I'll 2nd the headlight replacing. Soon as one goes, the other goes. As for the rest, i've never heard that being common.

Beetle/Brewing brethren...always welcome!

holden said:

If you haven't looked at them already, at least check out the Subarus. They don't have a small Golf sized, but the Impreza is similar to the Jetta size and you can get a hatchback version if that's what you prefer. I've had one for 8 1/2 years with absolutely zero problems (although I have done the recommended routine maintenance).

That said, if I were buying a car now, I'd be very tempted to get one of the TDi VWs or the Golf R (if I could afford it).

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I'll also 2nd the TDI. If you can, get it! I wish i had gotten a TDI. Stupid me.

maxamuus said:

I think if you take care of the car it takes care of you.

I bought a 91' VW Jetta and the only issue i had till i traded it in 2008 was i had the starter replaced. Was a great car and i would buy another one, but i bought a Subaru to replace it as i wanted a better car for snow.

So far i am likewise loving my Subaru! If you are in a climate that gets snow i would suggest you look at the Subaru lineup. They have some EXCELLENT cars.

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I've heard many a happy former VW owner go to a Suburu and and walk away smiling.

I absolutely love my '07 GLI and I plan on driving this car until the wheels fall off. I also consider my self a huge VW enthusiast. However, I don't think I would recommend one to anyone. I've had a host of issues in terms of mechanical problems and quality control issues. A few examples: I had to have the entire AC system replaced due to a failed compressor, failed PCV valve, failed MFD display (screen between the speedo and tach), bad navigation system, and I've been to the dealership many times in the past few years for recalls.

My sister bought an '08 GLI and she too had too many problems for a new car. The most sever being an oil leak the dealership couldn't locate, which translated into an engine rebuild and then an engine swap after multiple trips to the dealership for repair. These repairs also included many calls and complaints to Volkswagen of America. My sister is more anal retentive about engine maintenance than I am.

Now with the new generation of VWs out, things could be different. I also have to wonder if build quality has anything to do with where the cars are assembled. I know the GLIs were manufactured in Mexico while the GTIs are assembled in Europe.

Most repairs can be done in your driveway if you choose. I choose to let the dealership do my maintenance because of the number of issues I've had. I would like VW service to have maintenance records for warranty issues.

I would never buy a VW.

A few of my friends have them. They are hit or miss. 3 of them run like a absolute champs. Never have a single problem. Then the other 3 are what I would call a lemon. Constantly in the shop, never run right.

Have you ever looked at Mazda's? I think they are a great blend of looks, reliability, cost. I never had one until I met my wife. Her whole family drives them and they have never had a single mechanical issue in 20+ years. I think they have 12 of them over that time frame. Literally gas, tires, brakes, oil.

I drive a Protege and my wife has a 3. I bought the 5-speed Protege from her parents a few years ago when they bought a Tribute. It is a '97, not too stylish, but I was driving a GMC Envoy that was costing me an arm and a leg every few months in repairs and was getting 12mpg. I figured for the price the Protege was something that could get me to work economically and not worry about getting dinged up. I started saving money for a new car (Ironically an A8) expecting something to go bad within a year or so and just scrapping the Protege. It's 6 years later and the car still runs like a champ I want to say it has 168,000 miles, and I actually like driving the little econobox. I have even contemplated taking some of the new car money and overhauling the Protege cause I like it so much now. We most likely wont sell this car. It's paid for, doesn't cost us anything out of the ordinary and I can continue to use it for economical commuting.

My wifes 3 is much nicer but we have a baby now so something bigger is in the works. It is a much more refined car that the Protege. I'll be happy to take the 3 if she wants a bigger car.

We have a 2010 Jetta Wagon TDi w/ 60k on it and knock on wood is an awesome car, and Id have zero problems buying another one.

Thanks for all the input. I am still unsure on what to do. How about I narrow the question. People with direct experience with 2007+ for Jettas or Golfs, What are your recommendations?

Julohan said:

Thanks for all the input. I am still unsure on what to do. How about I narrow the question. People with direct experience with 2007+ for Jettas or Golfs, What are your recommendations?

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I have owned a 2010 VW Golf 2.5 (Gas engine, no TDI for me) for nearly 11 months now. just about 13k miles on the clock.

Absolutely zero issues. Free oil changes, too!

I consider myself somewhat of a car enthusiast; I regularly visit car blogs and keep up with the latest offerings. I was pretty thorough with my research last year before I purchased my car. This Golf is easily the best looking, most fun to drive car under $20k. I test drove everything I could get my hands on and none of them matched up well to the Golf. Sure, some got better gas milesage (Corolla), some were more reasonably priced (Mazda 3), and some had better reliability reputations (Hondas). But you won't find a nicer quality (fit, finish, design, materials) car within this price range than a Golf.

I love talking cars so any questions feel free to ask!

Julohan said:

Thanks for all the input. I am still unsure on what to do. How about I narrow the question. People with direct experience with 2007+ for Jettas or Golfs, What are your recommendations?

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As i stated earlier, my wife and i have a 2007 Rabbit (US didn't have Golf as it's name that year, but same car) and it's had zero issues mechanically. She's got 83k on it and works from her car (occupational therapist). She just yelled to me from the kitchen that she would definitely recommend the car to anyone. It's just the standard MkV/2.5L engine with the Tiptronic. It's had a few factory recalls, but nothing major and nothing to interfere with drive-ability, reliability or safety. My own opinion is that it handles like a champ and the turning radius is sharper than my own VW. The pickup is excellent, mileage is reasonable, and it's a blast to drive.

I had a 96 Jetta and got 170K on it and it was still running strong. Reason I got rid of it was I needed to commute to work 60 miles one way and the maintenance for the Jetta was starting to add up to not be worth it, based on the value of the car. When we were in the market for a new car, we (the wife and I) went to the VW dealer for a '10 Jetta. Didn't get it, but seriously considered it. I would definitely buy another Jetta.

Forgot to post the outcome of what I purchased.

After test driving countless cars from all brands I decided to go with a used 2010 VW Jetta Wolfsburg 2.0t. I wanted a Golf, but the Jetta was a better deal. The Jetta also came with a 4 year/ 48,000 mi bumper to bumper warranty. I bought it with 13,000 mi on it.

The VW's felt like a all around better quality car than all the other brands I test drove. This is just my opinion, but after test driving the VW's, the other brands seemed to be cheap and boring.

please post up when you have problems. not that i'm wishing you will, but....you will.

we have a local dealer that sells porsche, bmw, mercedes, vw, saab, and...mazda? lol. anyway my friend worked there for many years. he said the most expensive cars to own, by far and away, no close comparison, are the VW's. they are always, always breaking down.

personal stories, my first car was a jetta, lol. beat-to-h*ll A2. bunch of stuff broke, but noting atypical of a beat-to-h*ll 1st car i guess. my sister owned a newer jetta and had nothing but problems. timing belt snapped at like 80k miles. garbage.

to be ok with "visiting the dealer regularly" is awful. you shouldn't have to go near a dealer or any mechanic period until 100k.

they do feel solid, but so does any european car. like i said, i hope you have luck with it. they are fun to drive, but you pay for it.

FWIW, my first 3 cars were Jettas. The first was a '90 coupe with TONS of problems. But I have an affinity for Jettas, so I bought a '96 GL. That car lasted me a good 4 years with only a couple of small repairs (ignition coil, etc). I put somewhere between 60-70,000 miles on it.

When I graduated college, I splurged and bought an '07 brand new. I wasn't planning on buying new, but the Mark IVs were riddled with problems. So, I took the advice of some of the guys on www.dub-tech.com and bought new. I HIGHLY recommend you set up an account over there. The guy who started it is Walt -- he's a VW/Audi mechanic and created the forum to help out other enthusiasts. There wasn't a question he couldn't answer.

I had my '07 for around 2 years and put about 25,000 on it. It was in the shop once for a recall, but that was it, and the dealer set me up with a rental (which was a POS Dodge Avenger). I was religious with the maintenance, but I couldn't help but feel like I was being raped each time I went in -- way too much money for an oil change.

I stopped changing my own oil when I got that car because (I heard) it had a different kind of filter that required special tools. Maybe somebody else can chime in on that. Since I didn't have my garage and only had basic tools at the time, I just let the dealer do it for me.

I decided to get rid of it 2 years ago because my wife's Toyota Camry was about dead. Her car was paid off, and we couldn't afford another car payment on top of the Jetta, so we traded both of them in and got a really good deal on matching Hyundai Sante Fe's. Otherwise, I'd still be driving it.

Congrats on your purchase! That 2.0T engine is a beast!