Kit arriving today!!!!!

I ordered a ESB kit from morebeer.com and it is supposed to arrive today! I have never made an ESB and it is my first online HBS kit order, so we will see how it goes.

I am going to try and brew this Thursday or Friday. Any suggestions on brewing ESB's or any head's up to look out for?

I ordered both the White Labs and dry yeast with this one. I plan to pitch both and see what comes out!

Hardball said:

I ordered both the White Labs and dry yeast with this one. I plan to pitch both and see what comes out!

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I don't understand why you'd do this.

Pitch the liquid yeast (using a starter, preferably), and then save the dry as a backup for some point in the future when you have a yeast mishap.

Since you are a few days ahead of the game - why not make a starter with the White Labs? If you have some spare extract hanging around you could get the starter going for a few days then pitch it friday or so when you do your wort. A lot of people don't do starters, but I think they are good thing to be exposed to - and you will notice kick-aZZ quick starts and vigorous primaries. Maybe this would be a good experiment for ya?? Either way, good luck and enjoy!

I have never tried a starter and don't have any DME to do one. I am going to pitch both to try and up my attenuation (I always miss my FG's). I may try a starter with my next brew.

Hardball said:

I have never tried a starter and don't have any DME to do one. I am going to pitch both to try and up my attenuation (I always miss my FG's). I may try a starter with my next brew.

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Pitching both is unlikely to improve your attenuation anyway. It's really just wasting the expense of buying liquid yeast.

When you say you always miss your FG--by how much? A point or two, or more than that?

Do you do partial boils and then add top-off water to make 5 gallons? If so, is it tap water, boiled tap water, bottled water, what? A common cause of poor attenuate is insufficiant areation of the wort.

Another possible culprit is fermentation temps--are you fermenting too cold for your yeast strain?

Anyway, I'd go ahead and pitch the liquid yeast without a starter this time if it were me.

I don't think pitching both yeasts is going to necessarily up your attenuation... more yeast does not necessarily mean better ferments. And who cares if you hit your final FG anyway? OGs and FGs are just estimates based on the fermentables and apparent yeast attenuation (and they are a way to measure ABV, etc.)...

They are not spot on measurements to how the brew should end. You could brew the same exact recipe 5 times and never hit the same FG. It all depends on how lively and healthy the yeast pitched was as well as a hundred other factors (OG, ferment temps, water quality used, aeration, etc.).

Either way, pitching two kinds of yeast is not the best way to 'try to hit your FG'.

Actually there is probably a risk (albeit slight) that the two strains of yeast will be at odds and inhibit the effectiveness of the other (by clinging to each other, fighting over the sugars, etc.). If you really want to get as close to your estimated FG as possible, just pitch a healthy starter of the liquid yeast and keep your fermentation temps in check the entire time (don't allow peaks and valleys that might inhibit it)...

You are free to do what you please, but mixing yeasts isn't always (rarely is actually; maybe in a trappist ale or something) the best approach to take.

What did you buy for dry yeast? I've never had any problems (or heard of anyone having problems) with either Nottingham or Safale-56.

In addition to temperature, make sure you are aerating fully - that could cause your yeast to poop out too soon.

the_bird said:

What did you buy for dry yeast? I've never had any problems (or heard of anyone having problems) with either Nottingham or Safale-56.

In addition to temperature, make sure you are aerating fully - that could cause your yeast to poop out too soon.

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I second this. Usually my nottingham or US-56 Safale attenuate to about 80%... usually better than my liquid yeasts I've used...

In any case, I stand by my original assertion, do not mix the yeasts...

OK! OK!!

I will not mix the yeasts! I will use the White Labs and save the Dry Safale-56.

I do partial boils and top off with RO/Distilled water from Vons. I put them in the freezer and top off with those to bring the temp down quicker..

I bought a strainer for when I pour wort to primary and hopefully this will up my aeration (I use the dump and splash method to aerate).

If you're not going to make a starter, use the US-56 - it doesn't need one. It's counterintuitive, but a small packet of dry yeast has closer to the optimal number of yeast cells than a vial of liquid yeast. I've been consistently getting fermenation started within 12 hours using plain ol' dry yeast, including US-56 this past weekend.

Hardball said:

I use the dump and splash method

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Awwww see there you go having to drag a homebrew discussion into the toilet. This has never, never, happened here.

Hardball said:

OK! OK!!

I will not mix the yeasts! I will use the White Labs and save the Dry Safale-56.

I do partial boils and top off with RO/Distilled water from Vons. I put them in the freezer and top off with those to bring the temp down quicker..

I bought a strainer for when I pour wort to primary and hopefully this will up my aeration (I use the dump and splash method to aerate).

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This is probably the source of your poor attenuation. The distilled water you're using to top off doesn't have O2 in it like tap water would. Try shaking your bucket/carboy like mad after dumping and splashing, or if that doesn't fo it, put together an aeration set-up using an aquarium pump (cheaper but taskes longer) or an O2 tank. I predict you'll get more vigorous fermentations and better attenuation.

Or just use tap water to top off.

Make a starter with the liquid yeast (you can use some of the dme from kit to make the starter I believe...) or just pitch the rehydrated dry yeast.

I'm with bird on no starter needed for dry yeast. Brewed a bavarian wheat on Sunday 10AM and pitched rehydrated (for 30 mins) Brewferm Blanche dry yeast. Had fermentation by 2PM! Also, I've used the Safale 3-4 times and usually had fermentation withing 8-12 hours...

I'd say the two keys to your attenuation problem are either A) Make a starter with the liquid or B) Rehydrate [make sure you do this in regular water and not 1.050 wort] and pitch the dry yeast.

And either way, aerate your wort after pitching. The splashing is probably NOT enough to get ample O2, so you should shake the carboy vigorously for 5-10 minutes (my approach) or do something else (aquarium stone, etc.)...

Sorry it is Safale-04.

Going to be pretty hard for me not to use the $6 White Labs! Next time I will use the dry in a starter and see what happens.

I use a plastic bucket for primary so it is kind of hard to splash that around.

Hardball said:

I use a plastic bucket for primary so it is kind of hard to splash that around.

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1. Wash your hands.

2. Put your thumb over the lid opening (where the airlock goes) and shake.

Seriously, though, if you don't trust your tap water for top-off water, you'd probably be smart to use a pump and aeration stone.

cweston said:

1. Wash your hands.

2. Put your thumb over the lid opening (where the airlock goes) and shake.

Seriously, though, if you don't trust your tap water for top-off water, you'd probably be smart to use a pump and aeration stone.

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I've followed this method before when using a bucket.

Otherwise, sanitize a big (18-24" spoon) and go to town stirring and sloshing it around.

Anything is better than not enough o2.

I always used to top off with gallons of spring water, never had a problem. Of course, after doing that for a few batches, you might as well have bought yourself an aeration kit. Definately sounds like O2 (or the lack thereof) is your issue.

I top off with spring water as well and aerate as discussed above (shaking bucket, rolling carboy, spoon, whatever...).

In about 10-12 batches over the past several months I've never had less than 72-75% attenuation (and often as high as 80%)... If your yeast is fresh, your brewing practices sanitary, and you aerate well, there aren't many reasons you shouldn't meet the yeasts attenuation range and get near your FG.

Good luck!

Aerate before or after pitching yeast?

You aerate before you pitch the yeast.

Lorena