To turn to the dark side or not?

So, I've been brewing for about 8 months now, with 10 batches (extract & extract w/specialty grains) under my belt. I know this is a very novice status, but I'm enjoying it so far.

The question is....when did you guys make the jump to all-grain, and are there any setbacks to it? I enjoy brewing, and have a 2-car garage & a deck on the back of my house, so space to do so isn't an issue.

Thoughts?

Thanks, all!

I never understood what the holdup is for anybody to go all grain. Buy a turkey fryer, sew up a muslin bag, start brewing. You don't need an automated three-teir, pumped, liquid-cooled, turbo charged rocket powered brew setup. Get at er.

I did one batch and switched to grain.... haven't looked back once. There a tons of posts on here about doing all-grain on the cheap. Cooler and parts to do a mash tun are <$75 and you are good to go. You can make that up in grain vs LME in 5-10 batches.

I did one partial mash batch at #4 then went all grain. Other than space to brew, just get good hardware. Do some test batches to dial it all in and you should ne good to go. If you have the optiom to watch someone brew an all grain batch, do it. Check out a few different brewers setups and use that to help you to figure out what to get.

I've really been enjoying brewing qll grain. You'll probably want to look into getting some sacks of base malt as soon as possible. Get s grain mill too and it will be even better. Buy all your grain whole so that you have recipe flexibility right up to when you crush it all. Actually right up to when you start the mash.

Go for it! I went all grain after 2 batches. Not as hard as it seems, just more time and more fun. Have at it!

Thanks for the quick responses guys. My 30th bday is coming next moth, so I'll be asking brothers parents and wife for materials to make mlt.

Thanks!!

There are zero setbacks. It's more fun and tastes better to me.

Don't think of AG brewing as a "dark side", but be weary that it is absolutely a big commitment of time on brewday, and could be as big a cost of equipment as you would like to make it.

I started with AG, so it is all I have ever known. I really like the process, and am happy to spend 6 hours once a month on a batch of beer. It is like my version of a golf day. I think that is a good way to look at it.

Joe

IMO it's much more fun & rewarding...from building your own MLT to formulating recipes. Plus, you now have the flexibility to include grains that can only be mashed like rye.

I've only done one AG batch so far, but I can already tell from my samples that the color is spot on & clarity is much improved...not to mention it tastes great. It's more fun brewing outside too.

The biggest thing you'll need to figure out is the efficiency you get from your set-up. I was low on mine, but got better than expected attenuation from my yeast, so it wasn't a huge deal. Once you've established a consistent process/efficiency, you're set.

You don't even need a mash tun. Bring your turkey fryer up to strike temp, drop the grain in the bag, mix, wrap the pot with a blanket and you're golden. 1 pot+burner, 1 bag, 1 blanket and 1 spoon are pretty much all you need. Takes up very little space, costs very little money.

From there, of course, the sky is the limit for spending money on gear and taking up space.

I just moved to all grain and have 2 AG batches fermenting right now to put in my brand new kegging system. It took me about 6 months from my first brew to start all grain. It is a lot more work and more stressful of a day trying to make sure everything is going right.

I think I did around 3 batches of extract and then did 2 PM and then jumped into AG. I love it, building stuff is fun for me and I enjoy the long brew day, its kinda like my version of zen. I just built a RIMS set up so I get to re-learn my new system all over again, which is fun for me.

Also the cost of AG compared to extract is awesome as well. Plus I buy my hops by the pound, which I highly recommend

I switched to all grain about a year and a half ago, and I thrilled that I did. I still have a lot to learn, but I am making MUCH better beer now. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve, and yes you will need to invest in a bit more equipment, but the upside is HUGE.

You will make much better beer that will be much truer to style. It will taste better. You will have more control over your finished product. Batches will cost less.

You already have the basic knowledge of brewing. I was intimidated before I did it. Now I look back and laugh about it. Why on earth was I concerned about going AG???

Read a bunch of the new to AG threads here, buy/build a mash/luater tun, get a bigger kettle if you need it, and just go for it. Remember what you already know.....keep things clean and sanitized and go for it.

And above all RDWHAHB. It will be fine. You can do it!!!!

Alan

I went all grain after only 1 extract batch. Steep learning curve to be sure, but certainly worth it in the long run. More control, more fun, more brewing.

I helped my dad brew one extract kit, then I started my own all grain setup at home, and have been brewing AG ever since. Not once have I regretted it. Although it's not quite that simple.

Let's look at the cake analogy. You want to bake a cake. There are two options: 1) buy a Sarah Lee kit and be done with it, or 2) gather all the ingredients and bake it from scratch. Which route will take longer? Which gives you more control? Which tastes better (if you can tell)? Which would you enjoy doing more?

These questions are analogous to brewing methods as well. There's nothing wrong with sticking to extract brewing. AG is rewarding to some, but perhaps not others. You could always give it a try, and if you don't like it, or think it takes too much time, then you could sell your AG equipment and stick with extract.

Really, if you enjoy the hobby, and for how little the upgrade can cost, why not at least give it a try?

Now you'll see just how far the rabbit hole goes...

TB

I decided to skip the extract/partial mash thing and just go for AG. I'm glad I went that route.

For the garage or outdoors, get a cheap turkey frier and a grain bag. For stovetop, get a large stock pot or canning pot and a grain bag. I went for the stove top method since I don't have a garage at the moment. I built a heat stick for ~$20 in parts from home depot and I can do full boils on my stove top with just the heat stick.

Only thing I slightly regret is getting an 8 gallon canning pot instead of a 10+ gallon pot. With BIAB, it's nice to be able to mash with all of the required water for a batch if the pot's big enough. I generally have to sparge with 1 - 3 gallons of water to get to my pre boil volume since my pot isn't big enough for the grains and 8+ gallons of water. But I can still mash 20lbs of grain and maintain a 1.2 water/grain ratio.

Not much extra cleaning with this method since you are using a mesh bag instead of a mash tun. The only extra time is from the mash. You have to be able to hit the mash temp, but it's not too difficult if you go with the heat stick method since you can stir the mash with it to raise the temp. You do have to lift 50+ lbs of water soaked grains with the BIAB method though. That is a PITA until you figure out a method that works for you.

I started a bit like you doing extract partial mash for about a year. The things that I had to get (I bought over time but all have been very useful):

1) A large pot, I got a 42qt, it has been invaluable
2) An immersion cooler (when doing all grain you will end up with 5g of boiling liquid... this also is invaluable
3) The adjustable grain mill as mentioned earlier. I have been all grain for about 2 years and just started playing with the crush. The set it and forget it method worked great for me, until I had to grind rye.
4) I suppose this is optional but I love my converted cooler... get a medium large one (my it about 54qt, I can do up to about 20lb of grain which just about maxes out my capacity anyway)

I know people have built almost all of the above (except for the pot) so you could do this on the cheep, but I bought because I didn't have the time to build. Anyway, yes... go for it, it's much more fun and you can to control everything.

Just a FWIW:

All grain can definitely be fun, and make you feel more like you are 'making the sauce' as opposed to buying Prego. But, don't think that your beers are going to be automatically better by switching to AG. There are other aspects of brewing that will bring you bigger improvements.

First, you need to have fermentation control and yeast pitching rates down pat. Sanitation is always key. Good fresh ingredients play a major role (and can usually be controlled better when AG-ing).

Also, there are a lot more variables that you need to keep track of with AG. Mash temps, ingredient selection, sparge technique, efficiencies, full boil chilling, etc etc. It doesnt seem like a lot of work to people like us who love the hobby, but it really does take a lot more consideration and implementation.

Its still all worth it though to me (and hopefully you!)

I made the jump after 2 extract batches. It doesn't take much money to get a basic setup, and the money you save on grain vs extract is huge. Plus, you'll have way more control over your brews. Don't be scared, it's quite easy.

Went to BIAB all-grain after 4 extracts, and the only thing that really changed was my brew day got 45 minutes longer. BIAB is an amazing way to get 95% of the flexibility of an MLT all-grain setup, with 5% of the cost and complexity. I would definitely start there, and then decide if you need the new equipment.

You could do Brew in a bag, or build a cooler mash tun. But you will NEED a burner powerful enough to boil that wort, and a stand to hold the weight.

And I agree with kpr121, AG is great, but not nearly as important to good beer as sanitation, controlled fermentation temps, proper pitching rate, and good recipe formulation.

What kind of burner would you recommend for 5 gallon batches?
Turkey fryer suffice?

I'll only concede to calling AG "the dark side" due to the superiority complex that comes with it.

Did I say that out loud?



Kidding

I initially brewed four extract batches. I was not happy with any of them and most of the beer from those batches sadly ended up going down the drain. I was frustrated and on the verge of giving up homebrewing entirely when I decided to give AG brewing a try thinking that maybe using fresher ingredients and having more control over the finished product would make all the difference. For me it did. I've brewed about a dozen AG homebrews now and even the flawed ones have been light-years beyond my extract brews. It really wasn't until I switched to AG that I started brewing beers I would have happily bought from a liquor store.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that going AG was probably only partially responsible for the improvements in my beer. I certainly have a much deeper understanding of what goes into making good beer now than I did when I was brewing with extract BUT... I feel that it was making that jump to AG that gave me this deeper understanding. To be a decent all-grain brewer, it is not enough to know WHAT to do... you have to know WHY you're doing it.

So I guess my short answer would be:
While you CAN make perfectly good beer using extract for your base malts or even your entire grain bill, if you really love good beer and you consider yourself a details-oriented, control-freak tinkerer (like me) who enjoys getting under the hood to appreciate and manipulate the whole process from beginning to end, you can't go wrong with all-grain brewing.

I just went straight to all-grain. Sure, there's a learning process, but we're not splitting the atom here, people

I did a few brew-in-a-bag batches before getting a bigger setup. I'm glad I did, it would have been somewhat overwhelming to figure out both the process and equipment at the same time. I'd recommend getting a 15 gallon kettle (to leave room for future upgrades) & propane burner. Try making a relatively low gravity (because those wet grain bags get HEAVY!) 5 gallon batch once or twice.

mwmoose152 said:

So, I've been brewing for about 8 months now, with 10 batches (extract & extract w/specialty grains) under my belt. I know this is a very novice status, but I'm enjoying it so far.

The question is....when did you guys make the jump to all-grain, and are there any setbacks to it? I enjoy brewing, and have a 2-car garage & a deck on the back of my house, so space to do so isn't an issue.

Thoughts?

Thanks, all!

Click to expand...

Go for the grain! more recipe control and better brews! AG FTW!

I decided to go AG a few years ago when extract prices went through the roof. Have never looked back...although I do admit to looking at the 60 lb pail of LME everytime I am doing a group buy for grain.

Helped a friend with his extract brews...then did two extract kits and went all grain. Spent a few days reading several books, numerous home brew blogs, and several hundred brews later...never looked back.

My friend still does the extract kits despite my prodding and goading...won't even let me make him a starter...and that's okay....different strokes for different folks.

mwmoose152 said:

What kind of burner would you recommend for 5 gallon batches?
Turkey fryer suffice?

Click to expand...

Yeah, a turkey fryer will work all-be-it a little slower. My fryer set up came with a 38,000 btu burner. It takes about an hour to bring 168F wort to a boil and even then doesn't do much in the way of a nice rolling boil like my glass top stove does.

If you can afford it, i'd recommend getting the bayou or blichman burners. I figure with my set up it would shorten my outside brewday by about an hour.

I found a coleman 50 quart xtreme 5 cooler at walmart for 30 bucks! Should I go with this or another model??

Bobby_M said:

I'll only concede to calling AG "the dark side" due to the superiority complex that comes with it.

Did I say that out loud?



Kidding

Click to expand...

Haha - touche

There is no reason to hold back on the all grain. I hadn't done too many extract batches before I converted over (way cheaper grain/hop costs vs. extract). IMO better beer (a couple blind taste tests with friends have proven that as well).

People tried to sway me to hold off on buying bulk grain and "try it first" before you get a bunch of grain. Go big or go home I say. If you do extract with specialty you are basically taking the same time as AG batch. Batch sparging takes minutes, not hours and works well.

AG is not that hard! - with the caveat that you have to be detail oriented with a couple tools to make consistently good beer. That said, if you screw up you will likely still have very good beer.

Look into BIAB if you don't want to by more equipment.

I went to AG after just two extract batches, and it really isn't that difficult at all. All that it took me to get into it was a Bayou classic burner, grain mill, and a 10 gal cooler MLT (about $260 in total, it can be done a little cheaper though). The grain mill wasn't even necessary, but I just wanted it so my grain would have longer shelf life and possibly have better efficiency than buying it pre-crushed. I already had an 8 gal kettle and wort chiller, so those weren't included.

That said, definitely find some brewing software if you don't use it already. I use Brewtarget 1.2.3, and it helps me tons. I do really need to start paying attention to my water chemistry a little bit better though.

mwmoose152 said:

I found a coleman 50 quart xtreme 5 cooler at walmart for 30 bucks! Should I go with this or another model??

Click to expand...

Some will say its too big, but I have been using that exact cooler with a copper manifold for 18 months and about 30 batches without any issues. I have done low gravity 5 gallon lagers and I have done 10 gallon IPA's with 25 pounds of grain in it. Be sure to preheat it before you mash and it will be fine.

At $30 it's a steal .

Good luck!

Alan

what are the setbacks to getting a cooler that big? I don't know anything about old rain as of yet but I would imagine that it would allow for better mashing antsmarching as opposed to a big layer of grain in a round cooler

all it takes is a little more time and an easy 10g water cooler conversion for a mash/lauter tun. easy breezy.

mwmoose152 said:

what are the setbacks to getting a cooler that big? I don't know anything about old rain as of yet but I would imagine that it would allow for better mashing antsmarching as opposed to a big layer of grain in a round cooler

Click to expand...

Did you use a 'speech-to-text' tool to write this?

Just make sure the cooler isn't too wide so that your grain bed isn't too thin to perform a good filter and receive a good even sparge.

Tiber_Brew said:

Did you use a 'speech-to-text' tool to write this?

Just make sure the cooler isn't too wide so that your grain bed isn't too thin to perform a good filter and receive a good even sparge.

Click to expand...

I love and hate technology at the same exact time. that should have said obviously all grain... but it did not recognize that text... it sure as hell better get use to it though

I have an all grain setup and still do extract, partials and AG batches. Depends on the recipe and style of beer. I've done teh same amber ale recipe as a partial mash using BIAB in a 4 gallon kettle (3 gallon boil) and I have done it all grain with a full boil. Very little difference between the two resulting beers. I have made an all extract american wheat with a little bit of specialty grains and it is a very nice and drinkable beverage. A lot of how good your beer is depends on you technique and less on the recipe.

mwmoose152 said:

I love and hate technology at the same exact time. that should have said obviously all grain... but it did not recognize that text... it sure as hell better get use to it though

Click to expand...

Also note the "antsmarching" in there... I hear ya though.