Funky taste in boundary wheat beer

Alright so I'm brand new to the forum, and pretty much brand new to homebrewing as well. I got my start with a few kits I ordered off of midwestsupplies.com. So far no complaints about their products or service, but the first beer I made was the Boundary Waters Wheat beer. In order to spruce up the flavor a bit (I was trying for a blue moon which my girlfriend likes), I peeled and pureed about 3 pounds of clementine oranges. I left them in the freezer overnight, put them in a mesh bag, defrosted them, and then racked onto them in my secondary fermenter. I let them ferment for about 6 days, removed them for a few more days, and then bottled the beer (and put half in a corny keg).

For some reason there is a funky taste and smell to the beer, almost like the fruit went rotten and spoiled the beer. Is there anything that I can do about this or if I wait will the taste changy? Basically I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with this.

On another note, I just made my first all-grain batch of pumpkin ale. I ended up with about 11 gallons from a mixture of a couple recipes I found online, and it had a SG of 1.080, so it should be pretty intense! I'm fermenting it in a Sanke custom fermenter that I rigged up and it seems to be fermenting like crazy after just a day. The bottom (now the top) of the keg now has a corny lid, and I have been leaking CO2 out of the airlock every few hours. Funny thing is that when I leak it out too fast or for too long, towards the end it always shoots kraussen out of the holes, sprayed me and my girlfriend both down this morning. Maybe I should put an airlock on it next time Does it matter if the beer is pressurized during the fermentation process for extended periods of time, or should I make sure that I relieve the pressure as often as I can?

I'd guess it was sanitisation. Got to sanitize those orange peels before they go in the fermenter. Freezing them will kill some bacteria and stop bacterial growth while frozen but it will start back up as soon as they thaw.

There are two main ways to sanitize stuff going in your beer. Be it fruit or spices or whatever. You boil it or soak it in alcohol.

1. Boil - So it doesn't have to be a full on boil but whatever you're heating to sanitize needs to get to 160 and stay there for 15-20 minutes. Then you cool and put it in your fermenter (secondary, primary, bottle, whatever...).

2. Soak in alcohol - Rather than heat which can sometimes cause fruit and spices to do unwanted things, you soak it in alcohol. Vodka's a good way to go if you don't want to taste the alcohol and just want the fruit/spice characteristics. You essentially soak the fruit in alcohol for a week or so and then you have an extract made from the real fruit and pour it in your wort when fermentation is done. The advantage here is that you can taste your extract before adding and get a better idea of how much to add.

Oh and on your fermenter, yes you want to have an airlock on there. Too much pressure in your primary will cause the beer to start carbonating too soon and you run the risk of your yeast crapping out before they finish the job. So it won't make it bad you just may end up with an under fermented beer.

Yeah I have no way of adding an airlock now, I'll probably add one for the next batch. I have just been releasing the pressure until the kraussen starts to come out every couple hours.

Thanks for the advice on the fruit, I was wondering whether the bacteria in the fruit had spoiled the beer. I read a few places that boiling it would release the pectins and give you a cloudy beer, which is why I chose not to do that. Soaking it in vodka to sanitize it seems like the way to go. Is there any chance that the beer isn't bad or that the funky taste is just the fermentation of the orange puree? To me it seems like it's spoiled, and I don't believe that it's going to get any better over time, just disappointing and was hoping that it wasn't hopeless.

Anyways thanks for your response

No problem. There isn't really a good way to tell if it's going to get any better. I've heard from some folks that over time they've had funky beers get better and some folks say that they have not. I've had two batches get a little vinegary. It wasn't a great taste but it wasn't horrible so i just drank it anyway. Mine didn't really seem to get any less funky. What does the funkyness taste like?

Yeah mine is also drinkable (and I will probably drink it too), but it just doesn't taste quite right. It tastes like a light crisp wheat beer, the beer flavor is decent, the color is a little cloudy, there is a weird aroma to it, and it has a funky aftertaste. I don't know quite how to describe it, almost as if you can faintly taste that the oranges that you used, and they were rotten? There is just something with the aroma and the flavor that is slightly off, and although it is very subtle, it is also very noticeable. Both me and my girlfriend have tried to describe it but haven't been able to, all we can say is that it doesn't taste quite right.

Yeah, my beers that went funky were peach wheat beers. I had kept them in the fridge, and then when they went into the beer at flameout, they were cold so they cooled off the wort too quickly to be sanitized and I got wheat vinegar and couldn't really taste any peach. I think part of what happened is that the sugars from the peaches fermented out as well, so I was left with peach alcohol rather than peach flavor.(another tricky part to adding fruit)

Not sure there's much you can do now, but just make sure everything's good and sanitized next time and you should have better luck.

Haha yeah I couldn't taste the orange flavors as well due to the sugars fermenting out fully, and it tasted only like orange peels. It was pretty strong at first, but the orange peel taste subsided and seemed to blend with the beer pretty well, although the resulting flavor was a weird aroma and aftertaste. I just kegged it and put it into my kegerator, so hopefully it will taste better cold! Thanks for the info.

Btw I was able to rig up somewhat of an airlock for the keg fermenter. I cracked open the release valve and put a film canister over it upside down, so as it continuously releases the co2 it can escape but won't let any air in. It should prevent any problems with early carbonation so the yeast can carry on

TheBaconator said:

Oh and on your fermenter, yes you want to have an airlock on there. Too much pressure in your primary will cause the beer to start carbonating too soon and you run the risk of your yeast crapping out before they finish the job. So it won't make it bad you just may end up with an under fermented beer.

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Uhhh, I ferment under pressure just fine. Check out my link in my signature and see how I do it if you are curious.

The only difference between my closed fermenting sanke system is that I don't have a 15psi pressure release like you do. I have a corny keg lid attached to my keg, which does build up a ton of pressure very quickly, and I just left the release valve open with a film canister over it to keep out any air. It's working pretty well so far. It would be nice to get a pressure release valve attached that would allow the pressure to release at a certain psi, what system did you use to do this?

I have two different adjustable relief valves (I am still looking for the perfect one BTW). I use them in conjunction with a pressure gauge to see what psi I am at. They work great for controlling psi inside the keg. Nothing wrong with doing it the way you are. Do you seal it off completely with the last couple of gravity points to carbonate?

To tell you the truth I only started homebrewing about a month ago. This wheat beer was my first batch. I bought a few corny kegs and have been planning on force carbonating over a few days at 30 psi in my Kegerator. Everything is a work in progress, I just finished my Kegerator yesterday. Btw I tasted the wheat beer and it actually tastes pretty good now I'm not sure what the funky taste was...maybe the fermentation of the oranges gave off a weird smell and aroma. It seems as of the flavors are starting to blend together and the smell and taste of the funkiness is almost gone.

About your question, I'm not really sure even what secondary fermented I'm going to use for this batch. I have another keg, but would have to make another fermented out of it before I can transfer it. I was thinking of just siphoning it out after about 10 days into a holding container, cleaning out the trub, and siphoning it back in for another few weeks. Maybe even use a couple of my corny kegs as secondary fermenters. It's hard to get ahold of kegs, took me about 3 weeks to find 3 on craigslist, although I was able to get them for under $100! The 15 gallon kegs are def the way to go though.

So where could I get one of these adjustable pressure valves and guage defile you have been using? I'm very intrigued by your setup, seems like a great way to ferment.

Another question. I have been thinking about a way to clean out one of these kegs and reuse it to dispense my HomeBrew. If I could do that I could just use my sanke tap and have a 15 gallon keg instead of having to fill up 2 corny kegs. Have you ever done this?

Why, if I may ask, are you so intent on a secondary? Leaving it to clear in the primary is perfectly acceptable and then you have a keg ready to serve (well, after you carbonate it that is).

To be perfectly honest, I have all the information in the closed system thread about the spunding valve. I can't remember off the top of my head what I used or what numbers to order. I did put all the information, as well as other contributing, in the thread. There is a lot in there, that's why it is so long now .

Sankes are easy to clean man. Oxy-Clean or PBW and then a good rinse and sanitizer. Very easy to open and close back. There are a couple of threads detailing this as well. Not to sound like I am not wanting to help you out or anything, but if you use the forum search feature you will find a ton of information. I sometimes don't have time to comment to thread responses due to the damn infectious nature of finding info on the search function, lol. Once I get in the groove I stay there finding more and more until it is time for bed.... God I love this forum!

Just to give you a quick version of my ways... I brew high gravity, cut either in the kettle or post-fermentation for a bigger batch, pressure ferment in a 15.5 gallon Sanke, transfer after crash cooling and fully carbonated to my serving keg under counter-pressure, age, and drink my happy-ass off! It is all in the signature link, and IMHO worth the now 12 page read. Let me know if you need any further info and I'd be glad to help.

I'm not in the habit of ever asking questions. I couldn't find any info on funky tasting fruit beers otherwise I would never have started this forum. I just mentioned a few thoughts, and since I knew your experiences I asked you directly about them. The only problem I could foresee with using the sanke to serve is that I threw away the locking washer/spring when I opened it, but I'm sure I could figure something out. I'm not too worried about cleaning it, I could probably boil to loosen anything, then iodine solution and a good shake, maybe a carboy brush.

I guess starting out I have seen a lot of threads recommending the use of a secondary for two reasons. The first being clarity, and the second is that sometimes sitting for too long on the yeast cake could give the beer a vinegar taste. I have no problem leaving it in the primary to age, I was just worried about any off-flavors, I'm not really even worried about clarity.

I appreciate all of your responses. Your post is great, I'm just on my phone so I didn't really have the opportunity to read through all of it. I'll have to read through it next time I'm on my computer. Thanks for your info, you have been very helpful, and I am working towards eventually having a similar setup!

lol, I'm on a phone right now and it is a pain! You can order Sanke rings or look at Yuri' thread about the C clips. They say those are easier to use.

It takes a while for the yeast to throw off flavors so I wouldn't worry so much about that. My beer is bright enough without using a secondary and extending the primary fermenter settling time. There are a lot of debates on secondary use on here. Very interesting stuff.

I actually just ordered 3 retaining rings from old scrap kegs off of some web site, along with a gas manifold - 4 way distribution system for my Kegerator. Already have 4 perlick taps set up. I'm going to ferment two of my current four batches in secondary, and two only in primary and see if I can notice a difference in taste or clarity. If you're only using a primary do you ferment at lower temperatures?

Also I installed a ball lock valve in the bottom (used to be the top) of my sanke fermented, and cut a hold to fit a corny keg lid in the top. I was thinking maybe I could use the drain at the bottom for tasting, and also for draining after fermentation is complete. I left a bit of threaded PVC pipe inside in case I needed to extend it further from the trub. Have you done this at all? Any idea how high above the bottom of the keg it would have to be in order to drain the beer without disturbing the trub?

adamfargo said:

If you're only using a primary do you ferment at lower temperatures?

Also I installed a ball lock valve in the bottom (used to be the top) of my sanke fermented, and cut a hold to fit a corny keg lid in the top. I was thinking maybe I could use the drain at the bottom for tasting, and also for draining after fermentation is complete. I left a bit of threaded PVC pipe inside in case I needed to extend it further from the trub. Have you done this at all? Any idea how high above the bottom of the keg it would have to be in order to drain the beer without disturbing the trub?

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You don't need or have to ferment at lower temperatures.

I haven't done this. I cut my dip tube on my Sanke 3/4" and wish I hadn't. There is minimum sediment during transfer, and I wish I could get the quart it leaves in the fermenter back now. I would assume if the tube stuck up a 1/2" or so you would be fine. The bottom/top of a keg has a lot of surface area for the yeast to lay down and not be that tall.

I don't know, I guess I could always drain it slowly until it comes out clear and then use it to empty the rest. I attached the drain to the original sanke spear, cut it off right about where the spring ends, so it sticks up a few inches. I did drain a cup to taste it today, after about 6 days of fermenting, and the cup was basically all yeast and trub. I had to strain it multiple times before I could taste it. It did have 7 1/4 pounds of pumpkin in I though, I'm sure other beers will have much less trub to drain off.

Wow, that is a lot of room for yeast. At least, I should say, a lot more than I have. I think the pumpkin is your culprit on the actual amount you are dealing with of "other than beer"; but I feel that if you were finished and had transferred at the point you were taking a sample, you wouldn't have had much in your destination keg when it was all said and done. Now, I am talking about after you had carbonated and started to serve your destination keg (or if it was simply a secondary). I usually get sediment in my first few pints, but it is only a little bit. After that, and if the keg isn't moved any, I have clear beer. I am wondering since you said you use the keg spear, do you tap this with a keg connector? Are you using something else to attach to this design to get your samples or to drain the fermenter once you are done? I ask because the way the Sankes work is both gas and beer are tapped once you activate the tap connector, so if it was upside-down you are going to get everything on the "top" of that keg since it is now on the bottom.

I cut the keg spear at the bottom of the spring where it's crimped to hold the spring in, and then made a PVC drain to fit it. Basically so I could make it removable and sealed with the original fitting and gasket. So the spear only goes up about 2 inches from the bottom (originally the top) of the keg. Yeah the pumpkin is probably the culprit. This **** is so strong though, it should end up being about 7.8% alcohol, but right now it tastes and smells almost like beer vodka. Hopefully a little bit of aging will help out a bit.

Any chance of a picture when you get the chance of your drain-spear-assembly-thingy? Also, any picture of what it looks like on the outside of the keg now? I guess I am not understanding how you used the original spear and are actually utilizing it to get the beer out. Hope I can understand better.

Yeah I could take some pictures of the outside assembly now, but won't be able to take pics of the entire drain assembly for another few weeks once the fermentation process is complete. Basically I used the spear as the mount for the drain, so it can be removed if needed by removing the retaining spring and turning it out. The PVC pipe is just fitted with a washer to both sides of the spear assembly, and I had to use JB weld on the outside because I couldn't get it to stop leaking. It looks pretty good now though. I'll post some pics later today

Hey adamfargo -- what were your gravities for the Boundary Waters Wheat?? I am fermenting it now, want to compare my readings to something.

Thanks!

Adam,
To add orange flavor to beer you should zest a few oranges (i am guessing 2-4, but don't know maybe someone else has more experience with that) and add them to the boil for the last 5-15 min. There should be little risk of contamination because they were boiled.

Many fruits and juices produce strange and/or rotten flavors when fermented.

ShKotty

I don't really remember what my favorites were. I just moved and don't know where my records were. I want to say it ended up around 5% AC. I want to say it was 48 before the oranges and they should have boosted it about 6 points. Maybe ended up around 10-12. It was a long time ago, I'll see if I can find my notes and post them. Beer ended up great though att sitting for a couple months.