Black Rye IIPA Recipe Critique?

My 3rd all-grain batch and I'd love some comments on the grain and hop bills. I was shooting for something a little like Wookey Jack, which is one of my favs. Will I taste the rye and other specialty grains at these percentages? Also if anyone thinks Citra and Amarillo are a bad combo for a black ipa I'm open to suggestions.

Note: If my hop bill looks a little wonkey, it is because I have a big bag of Cascade hops sitting in my freezer that I'm trying to use to save money. I like the idea of using Citra and Amarillo, but I included small additions of backup Cascade just to boost the IBUs (and hey, they don't taste bad either!).

12.5 lbs 2-row 78.1%
1.5 lbs rye malt 9.4%
1 lb Carafa III 6.3%
8 oz roasted wheat malt 3.1%
8oz Crystal 40L 3.1%

90 min: 1oz Magnum, 0.5oz Cascade
30 min: 1oz Cascade
15 min: 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Citra, 0.5oz Cascade
5 min: 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Citra, 0.5oz Cascade
0 min: 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Citra

+Plus a bunch of dry hopping I will figure out later. Thanks for the help!

6.3% of carafa III seems like a LOT to me. A little of that goes a long way. I would crank that back to around the 1.5-2% range. Had you considered subbing de-bittered black instead of the carafa? You might get less astringency and be able to pick up more of the Rye. Were you planning to mash the darker grains, or steep?

I don't have any experience with Carafa III so I will certainly consider your suggestion! I HAD been planning to mash all the grains, but would there ever be any reason to steep some of the grains when brewing all-grain?

You can really do either. You're counting on your base malts for its sugars and enzymatic/diastatic qualities, but that's not the primary function of the darker grains. For grains like carafa and heavier crystals, you're wanting them for color and flavor. You can choose to include them in the mash if you like, or steep them if you like. Such small amounts won't contribute very much to the original gravity of the beer, but the time they spend in the mash can extract more color and flavor out of them but sometimes at the cost of having them taste brash. You'll really just have to experiment and see what works for you. The method I've settled on is I throw my dark grains into the mash with about 10 minutes left. I batch sparge, so that's plenty enough time to get what I want out of them without the beer tasting harsh in the end. Isn't all of this confusing information awesome? It gives you a reason to brew more, experimenting is delicious science!

best of luck.
BG

I made my last Black IIPA with about 5.5% Blackprinz, and it's not the least bit overwhelming or roasty. I don't recall how this compares to Dehusked Carafa III, but I suspect it's close. I would suggest making sure you're using the dehusked or "special" variety of Carafa if possible since it will be smoother and less roasty. If it's not dehusked, I would cut back or add it to the end of the mash, as was mentioned earlier.

As for rye, my personal preference would be to increase it quite a bit if you want it to be noticeable. My ryes are usually 20-25%, but then I don't like just "a hint" of rye. It's all personal preference...

elkmanbeerz said:

My 3rd all-grain batch and I'd love some comments on the grain and hop bills. I was shooting for something a little like Wookey Jack, which is one of my favs. Will I taste the rye and other specialty grains at these percentages? Also if anyone thinks Citra and Amarillo are a bad combo for a black ipa I'm open to suggestions. Note: If my hop bill looks a little wonkey, it is because I have a big bag of Cascade hops sitting in my freezer that I'm trying to use to save money. I like the idea of using Citra and Amarillo, but I included small additions of backup Cascade just to boost the IBUs (and hey, they don't taste bad either!). 12.5 lbs 2-row 78.1% 1.5 lbs rye malt 9.4% 1 lb Carafa III 6.3% 8 oz roasted wheat malt 3.1% 8oz Crystal 40L 3.1% 90 min: 1oz Magnum, 0.5oz Cascade 30 min: 1oz Cascade 15 min: 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Citra, 0.5oz Cascade 5 min: 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Citra, 0.5oz Cascade 0 min: 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Citra +Plus a bunch of dry hopping I will figure out later. Thanks for the help!

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Nothing wrong with with that amount of carafa. It's actually a perfect percentage for a black IPA.