bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
ultravista said:How long was it @ 80 before dropping? When was your brew date?
I brewed this five days ago, and it was probably at or around 80 for about 36 hours.
ultravista said:How long was it @ 80 before dropping? When was your brew date?
ultravista said:Crap, I wonder why the wort temperature dropped from 76 to 73. It started at 64 so over 30+ hours, it rose 12 degrees.
The wort dropped from 74 to 73.
How long does WLP530 take to really start going? Albeit about 14 hours, I expected this to be volcano-like in a hurry.
It's up to 68F now ... just wondering when the stuff will start spewing.
My "active" fermentation only lasted a few hours before the krausen dropped into suspension. While active, it was really going; however, it did not last very long. I'd approximate it to be less than 8 hours, possibly 6.
A quick gusher that subsided quickly.
This is my first time with this yeast and such a high gravity wort. I was expecting something different. A spewing fermentation that lasts for days. From other's posts, active fermentation lasts for days, not hours.
Any suggestions on how long to leave the fermentation @ 78-79F? The carboy is now heated to maintain the temperature.
Pitch rate was 1.5 ML of a two week old WLP530. While at 76, it was off-gassing pretty aggressively, a continuous gurgle.
Down at 73, it is quiet, very quiet. So quiet that I had to peel back the coverings to see what was happening. Lot's of activity but not crazy like it was 12 hours ago.
I expected a long and steady purge not a quiet nearly silent one.
When I do an Arrogant Bastard with WLP007, it is more active than this. From an off-gassing perspective.
Here is a picture of the old world version 15 hours after pitching the yeast...temp currently up to 78
View attachment 91330
Where is it on time / gravity at the moment? Estimated cell count?
CSI said:+1 That looks just about perfect.
ultravista said:I'm at about 132 hours (5.5 days) since pitching. The carboy is heated to 80F and while I have not taken a hydro reading, the fermentation is finishing-up.
At what point should I let this cool down to ambient temp (approx 68F)?
Are there any negative consequences by leaving this warmer for a while?
ultravista said:How long have you had it @ 86F? I guess I'll break tradition and take a gravity reading tomorrow to see where it's at. This will be a first. Of all the beers I've brewed, the only readings I take are pre-yeast and post-ferment. I leave everything in the carboy for 3-4 weeks.
CSI said:We use FM-15's so I can't comment on how plastic buckets work. 80-81F with Westmalle has never given us fusels over brewing this for the last 2+ years. It's not really a matter of "belief" as much as scientific and empirical evidence. Saq has been following BLAM to the letter on method (68F-82F 4-6 days) and has never had fusels as far as I know. His ale beat out a Westvleteren 12 and BJCP judges would have certainly dinged him way down for fusels.
We set to peak at 80-81F every time. According to White Labs 78F should also be producing fusels. Could this possibly be some other problem?
I am leaning heavily towards saq and CSI as they have perfected the recipe and processes since its genisis on 11-19-2009.
g-star had points deducted for higher fermentation temperatures (and byproducts derived) while many others have done very well following the same process.
ultravista said:g-star, where in PA are you? I grew-up in Newville and lived in Mechanicsburg, Harrisburg, Camp Hill, Carlisle, and New Cumberland.
I was back in PA in August.
ultravista said:smokinghole - olive oil method?
After 5 long batches from last Fall we have decided on our favorite variation to saq's outstanding recipe. Most of our team from Candi Syrup, Inc concluded unanimously that this is as near perfect to an actual Westvletern 12 that we have tasted in our test batches using D180. Hats off to saq and team. Here is our adjusted recipe:
WESTVLETEREN 12 CLONE - VARIATION 005
SPECS:
Yeast: WLP530 or WY3787
Yeast Starter: 1.75L - 2.0L (Stir plate required)
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
IBU: 34
SRM: 35
OG: 1.092
FG: 1.012
ABV: 11.36%
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Boil Time: 120 Minutes
MASH WATER
9.00 Gallons spring water.
FERMENTATION:
Primary: 7 days in glass @ 65F ramp controlled to 83F
Secondary: 7 days @ 65F
Additional: 49 days @ 50 - 52F
FERMENTABLES
3.00 lbs D180 Belgian-style Candi Syrup (Candi Syrup, Inc.)
12.0 lbs Dingemann's Belgian Pilsner
4.00 lbs Dingemann's Belgian Pale
0.10 lbs Belgian Debittered black malt (very important addition here)
HOPS
1.00 oz Brewers Gold [9.70 %] (60 min)
1.00 oz Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (25 min)
OTHER
1 - Servomyces tab (optional)
MASH SCHEDULE
Protein Rest: @ 132.0 F (9 gallons in), 30 min.
Low Saccharification: @152F. (Decoction), 35 min.
High Saccharification: @158F. (Decoction), 35 min.
NOTES
Note, add syrup at 3 minutes prior to flame-out. Chill to 65F. Pitch and ramp temp from 65F to 82-83F over 5 days and hold at 83F for 2 days more. At this point you should be near a gravity of 1.020. Rack to secondary at 65f for another 7 days then let "languish" for 49 days at 55-60F in glass. If your yeast is strong and your candi syrup is premium, (we're biased), you should hit terminal gravity 1.012 in about 21 days. Bottle or keg after another 28 days (total 49 days). Fantastic after 5 months...getting better every month after.
Final notes: the Brewers Gold hops was a very good choice for authenticity in this ale. It added that slightly needed additional flavor profile for a perfect Westy 12 clone. Also, saccharification temps at first glance look high but we found over trial and error that the higher temps contribute to the unique "chewy" mouth-feel and texture and helps the flavors linger on the palate. Last but not least, we tried to keep this recipe simple with the candi syrup, yeast, and hops developing the flavors on a simple base of 2 grains, (w/ a pinch of black malt for aging stability). This ale is a genuine work of art.
Cheers!
www.candisyrup.com
I have gotten a few PMs from people who followed the two Westvleteren 12 threads I did regarding trying to clone this recipe and a competition with the other people who were in on it so I'm posting up my notes.
There are two ways of making this, a "New World" recipe that uses specialty malts, and a "Traditional" recipe that goes by the way Westvleteren has been making it for a while with just two basemalts and sugar.
The Pious New World - Took 1st place & BOS in the Westvleteren 12 clone comp with 43 points beating out a real Westvleteren 12 with 40 points.
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.54 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 26.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.00 item Servomyces (10 min)
1.50 lb Dark Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8.30 %
0.75 lb Amber Belgian Candi Syrup (40.0 SRM) Sugar 4.43 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 15.77 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 24.00 qt of water at 159.3 F 150.0 F
The Pious Traditional - I like this better than the New World.
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 8.27 gal
Estimated OG: 1.092 SG
Estimated Color: 33.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 25.7 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (20 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (20 min)Hops 2.4 IBU
3.00 lb Dark 2 Belgian Candi Syrup (160.0 SRM) Sugar 15.79 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale
1lbs sugar added to beginning of boil, 1lbs added to last 5, 1lbs added in secondary.
Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
Total Grain Weight: 16.00 lb
----------------------------
Decoction Mash, Double
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
10 min Protein Rest Add 32.00 qt of water at 137.5 F 132.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 8.79 qt of mash and boil it 151.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 4.85 qt of mash and boil it 159.0 F
Same yeast is used in both, and same fermentation schedule is used in both. Chill the wort down to 65f, pitch and let it self rise to about 82-83f and try to hold it there. The yeast will keep the temp there for about 5 days when fermentation is about 80% done (about 1.018) and start to chill down to 65f until you hit terminal gravity at 1.012 which should take 2 days. After this rack off into a secondary (I did kegs for both as I keg conditioned) and chill to 50f for 7 weeks, then carb however you want.
Did you dump the entire 3.8L starter or just the yeast? That's approximately 1 gallon.
CSI,
What is the purpose of dropping from 83 to 65 for 21 days to finish it off? what happens if you leave it at 83 until it reaches 1.012? I'm at 1.020 now i am getting banana flavors and im not sure if that's what is expected. Does the banana mellow out with age?
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