Evilswine said:Can I pastuerize in plastic PET bottles like the Mr Brew bottles? Or will the temperature melt them?
This is from an earlier thread started by MeadWitch at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/cider-house-rules-187921/ It is for a simple, straightforward, draft-style cider that is carbonated and bottle conditioned.
And this is some text from the same thread, more explanatory:
My question is this. After you bottle the cider and then after you pasteurize it, won't there be sediment in the bottles? I mean, there has to be yeast there to carbonate the cider and then you kill it. Won't it settle out and leave a mess in the bottom of each bottle?
UncaMarc said:My question is this. After you bottle the cider and then after you pasteurize it, won't there be sediment in the bottles? I mean, there has to be yeast there to carbonate the cider and then you kill it. Won't it settle out and leave a mess in the bottom of each bottle?
Hey guys (off topic), I searched this thread a bit and didn't find too many people having problems with very (I mean VERY) fast carbonation. I don't know how in the world you can let your bottles with active yeast sit at room temperature for a week without exploding! Here's my process: Ferment cider down to 1.010 which takes 3-4 days, put the whole carboy in the fridge, wait for yeast to settle down for a day or two, rack to bottling bucket, fill bottles, cap, let sit out on the counter at about 77 degrees to warm up. I bottled some using this procedure this morning and they were sitting out for 7 hours, and I opened one just to be safe, and it spewed a raging foam! So I degassed them, and re-capped and I'm only going to let them sit 2 hours and then check one. But I wrote this to warn you that your carbonation could take a week like Pappers, or it could be done in 2 hours like mine. There are a lot of variables I guess. I learned to check carbonation very soon last year when I let my bottles carb for 48 hours, and I opened one and it shot like a gyser across the kitchen. Swmbo was NOT happy, and I was more afraid of her than the rest of the bottles that could've exploded any second.
Hi Pappers, in a much earlier post you said, "Have you considered letting the cider ferment to dry, then adding both sugar to carbonate and non-fermentable sweetener (like splenda) to backsweeten? No need to pasteurize then. "
That is what I'm planning on doing, but does that mean I can keep the bottles un-opened for, say, a few months, without creating bombs? Thank you and congrats on all the great posts.
I have an infected batch of pumpkin ale that may have lacto in it. Is this technique only good for cider or can I use it to kill off the lacto after its done carbing in the bottle?
Can you use swing top style bottles when using this pasteurization process? like grolsch bottles or bottles purchased at ikea or other stores. or will the pressure be too great and the tops will pop?
Can I pastuerize in plastic PET bottles like the Mr Brew bottles? Or will the temperature melt them?
So I have been following this post for a little
While now with the intention of using this method with my first cider. I am waiting on it to carb up right now and am going to open my first bottle to see if it's ready. My question: if I open the bottle and its not carbed up enough can I re-seal it or is it a goner? I am new with it all and I have been wondering this one for awhile cause I don't want to waste any.[/QUOT
This advice is a little late now, but the best thing to do is fill up a couple plastic bottles, like old soda bottles, along with all of your galss ones. Because with the palstic bottle you can feel the preasure inside unlike the glass. So you know when it is ready without having to waste cider.
190 isnt going to be enough to melt them.
I have an infected batch of pumpkin ale that may have lacto in it. Is this technique only good for cider or can I use it to kill off the lacto after its done carbing in the bottle?
Pasteurized another batch two days ago, worked great and the resulting cider was light, crisp and bubbly. Between swmbo and friends, we go through it very quickly.
In other threads and pm's, I've chatted with some folks who have run into a problem that I want to highlight - letting the bottles carbonate too much in the bottle before pasteurizing. Especially if this is your first time making cider and you're not sure what to expect, err on the side of checking carbonation levels early and often. And if the carbonation level is too high, do not pasteurize. You run a risk blowing off caps or worse, exploding bottles.
Once you know your process (for the juice you use, the yeast you like, your fermentation temps, etc) you can be a little more relaxed. But again, do not pasteurize over-carbonated bottles.
Once you open up a test bottle...is that bottle now toast?
A quick note for those looking for more anecdotal data before they make the plunge to pasteurization ala Pappers, and a heads up for those of you using a particularly aggressive yeast.
Just pasteurized a batch of very sweet girly-pop style cider. (hey its for the holidays...-cough-...really!)
OG 1.062
FG 1.020
cider = store bought pasteurized from concentrate
yeast = Lalvin ec-1118
sugar = brown sugar to 1.062
other = 1/8th tsp cinnamon per gallon
fermentation = 3 days(ec-1118 freight train baby!)
bottle carbonated = 3 hours @ 73 degrees
pasteurization water = 190 degrees then removed from heat and covered for 15 minutes.
That's right, it bottle carbonated in 3 hours. Theres nowhere in my house cooler, and the yeast is a beast with so much sugar remaining in the bottle. I expect a pretty sizable yeast cake.
Total time from pitching yeast to pasteurized bottles....4 days.
Been lurking on these forums for a long time, thanks again for all the info you long time posters have contributed.:rockin:
Mine went pretty quick too. However, if I had to do it over again I would let the cider ferment completely out, cold crash, then back sweeten to 1.010 or so and THEN bottle and pasteurize. The 3 days I let it go wasn't quite enough. There still was a fair amount of yeast in suspension (I used safbrew s-33) and as a result the ciders currently have an odd yeasty unpleasantness to them.
Oh well. It's like 6.9% abv so there's plenty of punch to make you forget about the yeasty flavor.
Just and FYI about the exploding bottle reply. I was mowing the lawn today and found a razor sharp bottle neck that was from the exploding bottle series. It flew about 20 feet away. Not bad.
Im getting ready to bottle and pasteurize my first batch of cider. I ran an experiment (and posted the results below) to figure out the temps that would be reached inside the bottle. My question is, how hot do I need to get my cider to kill the yeast (nottingham ale)? If I need to get my temps higher, I can remove 2 and use more water.
Results from my experiment:
8 - 22oz. Bottles
2.5 gallons of water
I filled my bottles with 65* water, added them to the hot water bath @190*.
Every 5 mins, I removed a different bottle, inverted it several times to mix, and took a temperature reading. Re-capped the bottle, and returned it to the bath.
Bottle temp. Bath temp.
@5 min 124 150
@10 min 133 143
@15 min 135 140
@20 min 138 140
Are people still heating their water up above 140, then inserting their cider with the assumption it will fall?
I still can't understand why you would do that. Here's what I did last night:
1. put bottles in a pot
2. fill pot with hottest water out of the tap
3. heat pot on stove to 140
4. leave it there for a while
Anyone ever use a cooler to do more bottles at a time? Did you follow the OPs instructions step for step?
anywhereout said:I heat my water over 140 because I don't believe the cider temperature would reach high enough to sterilize the yeast otherwise. the bottles and water coming to equilibrium would drop the water bath to a temperature too low to get the job done. Also, room temperature in my house is 75 degrees, and my tap water (which i run over the bottles first to pre-heat) is 130 degrees F. I have no cracked bottles from temperature so far. If I could start with water at 140 and keep it at 140 while the internal bottle temperature rose and sat at 140, I would do that. just not practical for me though without applying direct heat to the pot while bottles are in it. curious to see if you get bottle bombs over a period of a few months or more! Yeast type and racking could also be a factor here as well.
I am about to get into the hard cider. I had some Angry Orchard hard cider and I am hooked.
I am glad I read this whole thread. One thing that occurred to me is that I can use my BIAB rig to do the pasteurization. I am going to fill the kettle with bottles to see how many I can get in there at once.
I don't know why you couldn't load the cider filled bottles into an ambient temperature filled kettle, turn the heat and the pump on. Wait for the heat alarm to go off then set the timer for 20 minutes. Doing it that way will give a more consistent temperature throughout the bottles so you could probably use a lower temp setting.
So I just want to make sure my pasteurization went ok. Heated water til just short of boiling (no thermometer that goes over 150*F). While this was going, had my bottles soaking in another pot of hot tap water. Didn't bother checking temp, just wanted to warm them up from my cold garage. The smaller bottles went in the pot, stove was turned off and they sat almost covered to the top for ~13min. Ditto with my 22oz bottles. I ran a test bottle of water and 20minutes after taking it out, the temp inside was still over 150*. So I should be fine, right? So far so good, no explosions...last 6 22oz bottles in the pot now.
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