beer4breakfast said:I tend to enjoy processes for their own sakes. I like the process of batch sparging. I expect to like the process of fly sparging too. And since I don't watch TV, I much prefer to sit outside by my brewing rig and smoke a cigar or a pipe and drink a home brew or five, maybe read a little, and monitor the process. I find it relaxing.
voodoochild7 said:You have all convinced me I hate the time it takes me to fly sparge I want to try batch sparging I read the article it still seems complicated trying to figure out how much water to use. Is there a simple calculater to use? can somone post a step by step example or something?
Lil' Sparky said:It's really simple. You're already used to calculating the total amount of water needed. Suppose you're mashing 10 lbs of grain and you mash in with 2.5 gal of strike water. Your grain will absorb 4-5 qts. If you want 7 gal in the kettle, the amount of sparge water = 7 - residual in MLT = 7 - (2.5-1.25) = 5.75 gal. You want the two runoffs to be equal (3.5 gal). So you add 2.25 to the MLT, stir, rest, vourlauf, drain 3.5 gal, and repeat with the remaining 3.5 gal.
It may seem like too much math at first, but you get used to it quickly.
Okay so normally I use about 11s pound of grain. I mash with 3.25 gallons of water. So my grain will absorb roughly 4 quarts so I'll get aobut 2.25 gallons of the first runoff. So now 7 - 2.25 = 4.75 minus some grain absortion. So I run off the first 2.25 then add let's say 5 gallons stir let sit stir again and runoff the rest? Does that sound right? What temp should my sparge water be?
I am no expert, but don't you repeat just once (not 3x).brewman ! said:As far as I understand, you add water to the grain bed, stir it up, let it settle, circulate it a bit and then drain it. Repeat 3x.
I think the trouble most people have with fly sparging is keeping the in and out flows equal. Automation isn't easy for a lot of people so they have to stand there and watch the sparge.brewman ! said:With fly sparging you add sparge water, circulate a bit and start draining. After that all you have to do is add sparge water and that can be automated pretty easily.
If you want equal runoffs, then you would add 1.25 before your first runoff.voodoochild7 said:Okay so normally I use about 11s pound of grain. I mash with 3.25 gallons of water. So my grain will absorb roughly 4 quarts so I'll get aobut 2.25 gallons of the first runoff. So now 7 - 2.25 = 4.75 minus some grain absortion. So I run off the first 2.25 then add let's say 5 gallons stir let sit stir again and runoff the rest? Does that sound right? What temp should my sparge water be?
brewman ! said:1) I don't understand how batch sparging can be faster AND get good efficiency.
zoebisch01 said:I fly sparge for a few reasons. In general I have been getting really excellent efficiencies (but remember efficiency is a function of grain crush and some other factors as well which may or may not vary depending on the method and setup). It works nicely for me because I have a 5 gallon cooler and don't have room for batch sparging. In hindsight a 10 gallon would have been probably a better investment, but most of my brews are in the 45 to 60 range anyways so no big deal. The process goes like this for me. I heat my strike water in a 5.5 gallon pot and when it is ready I mash in. Then I set the timer for 60 and refill the pot with sparge water. By the time I am mashed, my sparge water is ready. I vorlauf, and then start to drain. Then all I do is wait until the sparge water is just above the level of the grain and then I just ladle the water onto the grains. Plain and simple. No arms, etc. The process for collecting 7 gallons of wort takes me roughly 35-40 minutes.
jezter6 said:FWIW, I've done 4 AG brews, and I never bother with making the mash runnings equal. I put what I need in for the first run, and what I need to sparge with to get to my 7 gallons. I get fine efficiencies (I don't check, but I'm always over my assumed 70% efficeiency level).
orfy said:I like that. It's simple
Lil' Sparky said:If you want equal runoffs, then you would add 1.25 before your first runoff.
FYI - A lot of people use this as a mash out step to bring the entire wort up to 168 deg. Usually that means the water added is close to boiling. There are equations to figure that part out, but I don't have it off-hand. I use BeerSmith now which does that for me.
Again, some of the confusion from the different answers is because not everyone does it with equal runoffs. What I've read suggests that will result in the best efficiency.
11 lbs grain
3.25 gal strike (~ 1 gal absorbed = 2.25 gal residual)
1.25 gal (~200 deg) mashout (2.25 + 1.25 = 3.5)
stir, rest 5-10 min, vorlauf
drain 3.5 gal
add 3.5 gal (you won't have any more water absorbed)
stir, rest 5-10 min, vorlauf
drain 3.5 gal
7 gal in kettle
Then all I do is wait until the sparge water is just above the level of the grain and then I just ladle the water onto the grains. Plain and simple. No arms, etc. The process for collecting 7 gallons of wort takes me roughly 35-40 minutes.
People who do batch sparging do it because they like it, want to and it works for them
This has to do with how the sugars are extracted from the grains. In a fly sparge, the water and grain remain close in sugar concentration, which is why you have to sparge very slowly. In a batch sparge, once you drain the initial runoff (which you know already has a high sugar concentration) you add back water with no sugar. This allows the remaining sugars to easily "flow" into the water, quickly reaching equilibrium.
brewman ! said:I didn't say it didn't work and I understand stand that people like it.
I'm not trying to persuade people to do one or the other. I don't care what people do. I want to understand the claims behind each method. For batch sparging I hear things like simpler, faster, easier, etc. I don't understand those claims ! Is it really simpler ? Is it really faster ? Yes, I am challenging the homebrew collective wisdom !
I'll repeat the question: what makes batch sparging faster or easier ? When I look at the batch sparging process, I don't think it would be <much> faster and I certainly don't think it would be less work. So please tell me where I am wrong.
brewman ! said:I'll repeat the question: what makes batch sparging faster or easier ? When I look at the batch sparging process, I don't think it would be <much> faster and I certainly don't think it would be less work. So please tell me where I am wrong.
ayrton said:I've never done fly sparging, but with batch sparging, you don't have to buy or build the tricky sparge arm. Dump, stir, wait, run off. Even if you're assuming that batch and fly sparging are equally difficult/time consuming, then batch sparging wins (to me) because of less work up front.
Lil' Sparky said:I don't want to knock you jester, but if you don't check, how do you know? And if you did check, you might find that equal runoffs might get you a little better effeciency...
Enter your email address to join: