Munich Helles Dead Guy Clone (Extract & AG- see note)

Yooper · Mar 11, 2009

Soperbrew said:
Uh oh...the 10g Dead Guy Clone I made is at 1.026 after 3.5 weeks. I mashed at 158F per recipe guidelines. I had it in a 64F water bath for 3 weeks & witnessed vigorous fermentation not long after I pitched the Pacman yeast.

When I measured the gravity at 1.026 after 3 weeks, I stirred up the yeast in both carboys & put them in the house at 74F room temp. They have been at 74F for 5 days now & today I measured gravity again & it's still at 1.026.

However, I see a tiny bit of airlock activity, but these are in better bottles & I can't tell if that's from minor temp. swings in the house or not.

What do I do? How long do I wait before accepting that fermentation is complete & this will be a very malty sweet beer?

I need these carboys soon for dry hopping the LWPA batch. This is messing with my brew schedule.

With pacman yeast, I've had it finish as low as 1.012 or so even with a higher mash temp and cool fermentation temperatures. Do you want to try adding some dry nottingham and see if it'll give you about 8 more points of attenuation? This beer really is good at 1.016-1.018 or so.

AnonyBrew · Mar 12, 2009

Thanks Yooper. I went ahead & threw some Nottingham in there this morning. Can't hurt anything.

TeufelBrew · Mar 13, 2009

Both batches (US05 and WLP001) are right around 1.018~1.019 after almost 4 weeks in primary. I'll be using the yeastcakes after I rack to kegs for an Hop Tea Amber. Basic amber from "Brewing Classic Styles" with a nice dry hop in secondary.

Also looking to try yeast washing with half of the yeastcake from each batch. Should be a fun weekend!

AnonyBrew · Apr 2, 2009

YooperBrew said:
With pacman yeast, I've had it finish as low as 1.012 or so even with a higher mash temp and cool fermentation temperatures. Do you want to try adding some dry nottingham and see if it'll give you about 8 more points of attenuation? This beer really is good at 1.016-1.018 or so.

Turns out my Thermometer has been reading about 3-4F too low past couple batches. I think this could be why mine finished at 1.026. I had a Munich Dunkel also finished high on me recently. Pretty sure the thermometer was the issue.

taylornate · Apr 6, 2009

Revvy said:
When you switched to Xldme did you re calculate the recipe to convert the Lme to 3.2 pounds DME....making a total of 7.2 pounds XLDME...or did you use 8 pounds?

Either I missed it or this never got answered.

Yooper · Apr 6, 2009

taylornate said:
Either I missed it or this never got answered.

I'm not sure of the question?

taylornate · Apr 6, 2009

YooperBrew said:
I'm not sure of the question?

In the recipe in the first post you mention 4 lbs DME and 4 lbs LME. You mention you substituted all with DME. Did you use 8 lbs DME or did you use less to compensate for the LME -> DME substitution?

Yooper · Apr 6, 2009

taylornate said:
In the recipe in the first post you mention 4 lbs DME and 4 lbs LME. You mention you substituted all with DME. Did you use 8 lbs DME or did you use less to compensate for the LME -> DME substitution?

I've done it a couple of times with the LME and DME, and I have substituted all DME once or twice. When I sub with DME, I adjust the amount to give me the same OG, so I would have used 7 pounds of DME.

TeufelBrew · Apr 9, 2009

Yooper, Thanks for a great recipe!
The US05 batch comes really close to Dead Guy. Both it and the WLP001 finished around 1.018, so there is a nice malty sweetness to them. However, there is a bit of banana, clove taste to the WLP001. It's not a bad thing. Similar to a weizenbock taste and I love weizenbock. I'm wondering if it's common to the yeast or if I have somehting hanging around in my fermenter.

No matter what, it's a recipe I'll be doing again. I'm also starting to look into my water profile and want to fit the water to the beer a bit better. My water now is best for darker beers. Want to get a little more crispness in my lighter beers.

taylornate · Apr 9, 2009

YooperBrew said:
I've done it a couple of times with the LME and DME, and I have substituted all DME once or twice. When I sub with DME, I adjust the amount to give me the same OG, so I would have used 7 pounds of DME.

Sorry if I'm being too picky, but 7.0 pounds or 7.2 pounds like Revvy suggested?

Yooper · Apr 9, 2009

taylornate said:
Sorry if I'm being too picky, but 7.0 pounds or 7.2 pounds like Revvy suggested?

I would buy two three pound bags and a one pound bag, so I'd use 7 pounds.

ifishsum · Apr 13, 2009

Great recipe Yooper! Dead Guy is one of my favorite beers, and I've made 5 batches (PM) of this clone in the last 6 months...it really is spot on to the original - smell, color and everything. Prost!

Thumper · Apr 13, 2009

ifishsum,
Can you share your PM recipe? I am working on doing this as a parital mash in a couple of weeks. I would be interested in what you did, especialy since it came out good.
Thanks,

gifty74 · Apr 13, 2009

Crazy thing, I brewed this last weekend, and after a week of primary it's still bubbling about every 3 seconds. I used the authentic Pacman yeast and it started around 1.063 and I'm already down to 1.009

. I hope it soon ends because I fear it will get too low for the style & clone. I mashed steady at 151 and all temps were dead on. Not sure why this would attenuate so well, all of the reading suggested that Pacman would only get down to 1.012 or so at the most. Anyone else experience this?

Yooper · Apr 13, 2009

gifty74 said:
Crazy thing, I brewed this last weekend, and after a week of primary it's still bubbling about every 3 seconds. I used the authentic Pacman yeast and it started around 1.063 and I'm already down to 1.009 . I hope it soon ends because I fear it will get too low for the style & clone. I mashed steady at 151 and all temps were dead on. Not sure why this would attenuate so well, all of the reading suggested that Pacman would only get down to 1.012 or so at the most. Anyone else experience this?

Yes, I think one of my first posts mentioned mashing this at 156, because it attenuated really well. At 151, I would think that it would ferment pretty dry. I don't mash many beers under 153, but this one should be a malty beer so I'd mash it higher.

ifishsum · Apr 13, 2009

Thumper said:
ifishsum,
Can you share your PM recipe? I am working on doing this as a parital mash in a couple of weeks. I would be interested in what you did, especialy since it came out good.
Thanks,

Thumper, all I did was add 2 lbs of base malt and reduce the extract - this is how I converted it for my setup (3 gallon boil pot, 2 gallon round cooler MLT, large grain bag):

2 lbs British Pale malt (Maris Otter)
1 lb Munich malt
1 lb CaraMunich
8 oz Crystal 40L
7 lbs fresh light LME

Mash grains in 6 quarts of water, shooting for mash temp 150-152*F for 1 hour
Sparge grain bag in boil pot with 6.75 quarts of water @170 for 5-10 minutes, agitate and drain bag
Pour mash runnings from cooler into boil pot w/sparge runnings
Start boil

Hops schedule:
1.0 oz Perle 8.2% (leaf) @60 min
0.5 oz Perle 8.2% (leaf) @30 min
0.25 oz Perle 8.2% (leaf) @5 min
0.5 oz Saaz 2.7% (leaf) @5 min

I wait to add all of the LME until 10 minutes left in the boil, before the last hops additions (by this time enough liquid has boiled off that there is room in the pot for the 7 lbs of LME). I remove from the burner, stir in the extract well and then restart the boil, usually adding Irish Moss and yeast nutrient. Once it's boiling again I restart the timer and add the last hops. Cool, top off to 5.5 gallons and pitch yeast (pacman starter or US-05 dry yeast).

Depending on your mini-mash efficiency, you may adjust the extract a little - I'm getting 65-70% to hit OG of 1.066-1.067 and it usually finishes at 1.016-1.017.

Good luck! I hope Yooper doesn't mind me posting my slight PM variation

Thumper · Apr 13, 2009

Thank you! ifishsum. I will try to find my notes. My computer crashed at home, but I know I wrote something down about it.

Yooper · Apr 13, 2009

ifishsum said:
Good luck! I hope Yooper doesn't mind me posting my slight PM variation

Of course I don't mind! You saved me from all that math!

Seriously, this is a great place to share our ideas so I appreciate your input. I would never mind a little advice and input!

gifty74 · Apr 16, 2009

I'm really bummed I missed the mash temp, not sure how I overlooked that. It finished at pretty much 1.009 and is now ready for keg. One problem, it's now just a plain ale with no hop flavor or aroma (as it should) and very dry. Only bonus is high alcohol volume. Man, Wyeast was not joking when they list "HIGH" for attenuation on Pacman. I guess I'll just have to harvest that yeast and give it another shot.

So I should really shoot to mash at 156 at least to get those unfermentables in there and buffer this attenuative yeast?

humann_brewing · Apr 17, 2009

I was checking the info at Rogue and they claim that the commercial version has 40 IBUs but I am get about 28 plugging this recipe into Beersmith.

Is this some brew myth magic at Rogue or what is going on? Your recipe seems to be pretty spot on from this post so what is the real story Yooper?

Yooper · Apr 17, 2009

I get 33 when I look at Beersmith. For a partial boil, that might be right for calculation, but it seems good when I've tried it. I've read that you can't taste a difference between 5 IBUs, so maybe that's way it tastes ok with this amount of hops.

As far as mash temps, I like to mash this one high, to give the malty taste and higher FG.

humann_brewing · Apr 17, 2009

YooperBrew said:
I get 33 when I look at Beersmith. For a partial boil, that might be right for calculation, but it seems good when I've tried it. I've read that you can't taste a difference between 5 IBUs, so maybe that's way it tastes ok with this amount of hops.

As far as mash temps, I like to mash this one high, to give the malty taste and higher FG.

Ok, thanks Yooper. I was pluging this in for all grain based on 83% efficiency too, just using your percentages of grains more. I will shoot for somewhere around 33 ibus then. That is if I can get my pacman bottle harvest going.

ifishsum · Apr 21, 2009

I do increase the first Perle addition in my version by a bit after doing a side-by-side comparison to the original. I use 1.25 oz @60 instead of 1 ounce, and go a little over .5 oz for the 30 minute addition. I do a partial boil, so I figure that's probably why I had to increase a little to get the same end result. That plus I overshot my OG on the first batch by 6-7 points...

taylornate · Apr 21, 2009

ifishsum said:
I do increase the first Perle addition in my version by a bit after doing a side-by-side comparison to the original. I use 1.25 oz @60 instead of 1 ounce, and go a little over .5 oz for the 30 minute addition. I do a partial boil, so I figure that's probably why I had to increase a little to get the same end result. That plus I overshot my OG on the first batch by 6-7 points...

I too overshot the gravity. I wonder why.

gifty74 · Apr 21, 2009

humann_brewing said:
Ok, thanks Yooper. I was pluging this in for all grain based on 83% efficiency too, just using your percentages of grains more. I will shoot for somewhere around 33 ibus then. That is if I can get my pacman bottle harvest going.

I just washed and harvested 4 pint jars of Pacman from my most first run with it last week. If you can't get the harvest going let me know and I'll gladly send you a jar. The yeast have settled out in 2 days and there's at least a half inch of yeast in each jar.

humann_brewing · May 5, 2009

I just got done listening to the Sunday Brew session from sep '07 where they interviewed John Maier and he mentioned that they use a whole lot of munich in a lot of their beers included the Dead Guy. He said they use 20% munich in Dead Guy.

What do you think this recipe would be like if the munich went from 6.9% to 20%.

gifty74 · May 6, 2009

You know, even though I mashed this a bit low, ending it up at 1.009 FG, I've had a few glasses now and it's surprisingly sweet. In fact, everyone who drinks it says it's sweet. Not sure why but there's not doubt it's on the malty side, more so than Dead Guy. Because of this I'm not quite to a match as of yet, might try it again in the future.

Yooper · May 7, 2009

humann_brewing said:
I just got done listening to the Sunday Brew session from sep '07 where they interviewed John Maier and he mentioned that they use a whole lot of munich in a lot of their beers included the Dead Guy. He said they use 20% munich in Dead Guy.

What do you think this recipe would be like if the munich went from 6.9% to 20%.

I think that would be good. It's malty as it is, though. I really am a big Munich malt fan, so maybe that would be something for me to try next time.

humann_brewing · May 7, 2009

YooperBrew said:
I think that would be good. It's malty as it is, though. I really am a big Munich malt fan, so maybe that would be something for me to try next time.

I was thinking the same thing too but maybe I will email them and see if they can provide any more details but I already have your recipe in the fermentor so it will be a while before I try again..

Thanks again Yooper :mug:

TeufelBrew · May 7, 2009

Well, both kegs of this have kicked. Yooper, thanks for sharing a really great recipe. I will be making this again, soon. Likely to look at the increased Munich and adjust my mash temp a little.

I also want to harvest some pacman and do a side by side with the US05. I think it would be a worthy comparison. Didn't really like the WL001 version.

Munich Helles Dead Guy Clone (Extract & AG- see note)

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