Wheat Beer has off flavor?

So I should prob start off saying I am new to brewing (Hence the Forum choice). Started in March of this year and have brewed every month since.

This was my first BIAB and had a hard time keeping a consistence mash temp which is the biggest challenge with BIAB (Side note: I bought a cooler and made a mash tun after this experience).

Here is the recipe I used

- 3 gallons
- OG 1.042, FG 1.010
- Boil 60 minutes
- 10.5 IBU
- 5.4 SRM

Mash
60 miuntes @ 154*F (tried to any ways. Ranged from 148-160)

2.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) 45.71 %
1.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) 34.29 %
0.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) 11.43 %
0.50 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) 8.57 %

Boil (60 minutes)

0.25 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min) 7.7 IBU
0.50 oz Dextrose (60 Min)
0.25 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (10 min) 2.8 IBU
2.00 oz Tangerine Peel (10 min)


Yeast

Safale Wheat Ale (WB-06)

Its only been in the bottle for about 2 weeks. I like to try one each week to see how it is developing. First few sips are good. Getting a lot of tangerine. Then a few more drinks in...... Honestly I am having a hard time determining what the issue is. First off I think I used waaaaaayy to much tangerine. It is very dry possibly due to the mash and addition of dextrose. there is a flavor that is kind of bitter (maybe from the tangerine peel) Have no idea if I can detect the honey malt or I can and I don't like it.

Guess the big question is... Will more time allow these flavors to mellow out?

Did you have pith on your tangerine peel? Pith can cause astringency.

That's why I prefer to use zest.

Well I used the Brewers Best Tangerine Peel as it was a gift. So chances are there was some pith?

I have used fresh zest before but figured I had the BB I should use it

I don't know about using dried peel. I've only used fresh. I would assume NB would know enough to keep the pith off it.

2oz is probably way too much tangerine for 3 gallons. 1/2 to 1oz for 5 gallons is usually what I see I recipes.

The flavor should mellow some with time.

Yeah probably too much tangerine, 8% for honey malt doesnt seem to be overboard. Also if you fermented too high you could get some off flavors from that.

The beer being too dry probably wont fix it self with time, the flavors may mellow out a bit though.

Brew the next batch and try the current brew in another 2 weeks.

It sounds to me more like a water chemistry issue.

The beer is very light in color, which means it has little dark malt to help reduce the mash pH. If you didn't use any acid in the mash, or 100% RO water for the mash and sparge, it is very likely that your mash pH is too high.

What kind of water did you use? Do you know anything about it?

Another thought, although your description seems to lead elsewhere for the problem, is that with pilsner malt, it is often best to do a longer boil (around 90 minutes). This is because pilsner malt has more issues with DMS, which can produce off flavors (often described as corn-like) in the final beer. No idea if that could be part of the problem or not, but it's at least worth knowing.

with pilsner malt, it is often best to do a longer boil (around 90 minutes). This is because pilsner malt has more issues with DMS, which can produce off flavors

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Now that you say that I do recall hearing this somewhere could also be the problem. I really need to refine my pallet so I can better explain off flavors

Yooper said:

It sounds to me more like a water chemistry issue.

The beer is very light in color, which means it has little dark malt to help reduce the mash pH. If you didn't use any acid in the mash, or 100% RO water for the mash and sparge, it is very likely that your mash pH is too high.

What kind of water did you use? Do you know anything about it?

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I know nothing about my water. Just used water from the tap

smAllGrain said:

I know nothing about my water. Just used water from the tap

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I'm certain that your mash pH is too high. Even using RO water in a grainbill like that may require some acidification in the mash to get a low enough mash PH.

I'm brewing with RO water, and with all pilsner and vienna malt, I have to add acid to get my mash pH in the right range.

I'd suggest either contacting your water supplier for details, especially alkalinity, or get a water report. I sent my water sample to Ward Lab and got a "household minerals test" and it's all that a brewer needs to know.

If you have chlorine or chloramines in your water, that needs to be treated but can easily be done at home.

If it was water PH and or not boiling long enough... Is there any hope!

Brewing an IPA this Saturday. Since I know nothing about my water will the hops mask any issues or?....

smAllGrain said:

If it was water PH and or not boiling long enough... Is there any hope!

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You boiled long enough. If you didn't boil long enough or hard enough, you'd have a vegetal flavor or aroma to the beer, like creamed corn or even cooked cabbage.

But if it is water related, it will not get better. It will have this dry-ish astringency to it, or a certain harshness, and won't improve much if at all.

Since beer is 99% water, it's important to look at it.

I think you are prob right about the water.... I will give it another couple weeks just in case and then choke it down... Def going to get a water report from my city... said day, first bad batch... Thanks for your input. Think my IPA will be safe... is it beers with Pilsner malt that I mainly need to worry about. Made Wit's, IPA's, & Cream Ale's (all extract w/ specialty grains) with no issues like this

There's a water report for Cedar Rapids here, probably for municipal water (although that isn't confirmed):

Cedar Rapids, IA
Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 Alkalinity pH
21 13 13 33 21 86 (HCO3) 8

Assuming that this is representative of your water, it looks like your water is fairly low mineral content and a little alkaline. A google search suggests that chloramine is used in Cedar Rapids municipal water. To remove any chloramine, you should add a quarter of a crushed Campden tablet per 5 gallons. This is probably going to be needed for every beer you brew, but Campden tablets are cheap.

For an IPA, you should probably at some gypsum to help the hops shine through, and to help bring down the mash pH. You may also need to add lactic acid to adjust mash pH. Your LHBS should have all of these things. Over in the Brew Science forum, there's an introduction to water chemistry sticky that should be helpful, or you can download bru'n'water or use the Brewer's Friend calculator.

I've taken the profile I found above, and made a random stab in the dark at the kind of grain bill (grist details section) that an IPA might have, and put it into the Brewer's Friend calculator to give you an example, which is available here. Working with an acid malt addition (quarter of a pound) and an addition of 5g of gypsum to the mash brings the mash pH into line, but you'll need to change that for your actual water volumes and grain bill.

dyqik said:

From here, probably for municipal water (although that isn't confirmed):

Cedar Rapids, IA
Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 Alkalinity pH
21 13 13 33 21 86 (HCO3) 8

It looks like your water is fairly low mineral content and a little alkaline. A google search suggests that chloramine is used in Cedar Rapids municipal water. To remove any chloramine, you should add a quarter of a crushed Campden tablet per 5 gallons. This is probably going to be needed for every beer you brew, but Campden tablets are cheap.

For an IPA, you should probably at some gypsum to help the hops shine through, and to help bring down the mash pH. You may also need to add lactic acid to adjust mash pH. Your LHBS should have all of these things. Over in the Brew Science forum, there's an introduction to water chemistry sticky that should be helpful, or you can download the bru'n'water spreadsheet to see what you need to do to adjust your mash pH into roughly the right range.

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If that actually is the water profile, that's pretty good! You could make most beer styles with minimal adjustments as it's a pretty blank slate.

As dyqik said, you would have to treat for the chloramine, but that's easy enough to do.

Extract doesn't rely on mash pH, so extract beers can be great with a wider variety of water profiles. But AG brewing requires attention to mash pH and sparge pH (if sparging) to ensure the proper flavor in the finished beer.

That is AWESOME!!!! I had no idea this existed... I am def going to pick up some supplies tomorrow. Thank you for all your help. I will check out that sticky. SCIENCE!!!!

looking online at what my LHBS has and there are two different types of Campden tablets. Potassium or sodium? What do you think of 5.2 Stabilizer?

Sorry to turn this into a thread about water.

smAllGrain said:

looking online at what my LHBS has and there are two different types of Campden tablets. Potassium or sodium? What do you think of 5.2 Stabilizer?

Sorry to turn this into a thread about water.

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The stabilizer should be crossed off your list, and never referred to again. Seriously, there are lots of posts by people in the know that can explain what it is and why it won't work, over in the Brew Science forum.

Grab the potassium metabisulfite tabs, although the little bit of sodium in those won't really be an issue. One tablet is generally the 'dosage' for 20 gallons, so you can cut them for smaller amounts of water. Stir a crushed tablet into your brewing water, and stir well, and then you can brew. The reaction is very quick, and you won't need to wait before using the water. I generally get my water ready the night before to save time, but it's not required.

While I have your attention Is that all I should need for all my brews in the future? Your advice is priceless as I am a newbie

& I promise to never speak of he-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named

smAllGrain said:

While I have your attention Is that all I should need for all my brews in the future? Your advice is priceless as I am a newbie

& I promise to never speak of he-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named

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The campden tabs you'll need for every brew with town water. The salt additions and amount of acidulated malt will vary with the grain bill and style of beer you want to make (you'll need less salts, or possibly none at all in darker beers). Gypsum is probably the most used salt, to add sulfates for hoppy styles. You may at some point need some others for malt forward styles, but don't worry about that for now, as your water is pretty good for darker beers already. If you don't want to use acidulated malt (e.g. in very pale beers?), you can add lactic or other food acid to the mash instead.

Just wanted to post an update.

After almost a month in the bottle the off flavors are gone & I have a delicious wheat beer. Still am not sure what the issue was.... Im going to chalk it up to too much tangerine peel.

Going forward I will def be treating my water.

Thanks for all the advice