Tweaking Brew's Best Scottish Ale

I'm planning on starting my first batch this weekend, using a Brewer's Best Scottish Ale kit: http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1038_Scottish_Ale.pdf

As I said, this is my first attempt at home brewing; I got a starter's setup for Christmas and just finally have a little bit of time at home this weekend. I picked up Palmer's How to Brew right before my recent trip and got through most of it. It definitely helped me get a better understanding of brewing.

Maybe I should just stick to the default recipe for my first attempt, but I would like to shoot for a higher ABV (~6.5%), the target 3.25% to 3.5% seems pretty low for this style. One of my favorite Scottish Ales is from a local microbrew (Upstream) and is 6.5% (hence this being my target.) What would be the best way to accomplish a higher ABV while having a minimal impact on the other characteristics of the beer? On the following thread someone claims adding honey to the boil is a great way to accomplish this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/how-increase-alcohol-level-9170/index3.html
Any thoughts on the use of honey to increase ABV, or any other suggestions?

Also, several reviews of this kit state that the smoky flavor is a bit too intense, so I was thinking about only using 3 oz of the Smoked grain instead of 4 oz. Are there any potential repercussions of doing this?

Thanks!!
-D.L.

I would just add more malt extract. That will up the gravity a bit (DME=45 ppg, LME=36 ppg). You'll then want to add more hops (or do a late extract addition) to balance out the extra gravity. I'll see if I can't come up with a recipe later.

However, since it is your first batch, I would say it's easier to stick with a lower gravity beer (though 3.25 seems very low). That way you can get the process down and be ready for the next beer. Perhaps a 4.5-5% ABV might be better. That being said, a bigger Scotch Ale is still doable.

What is your objective with brewing this beer? Great taste, lots of alcohol to get you smashed quickly, or just learning how to modify a recipe? I'd brew this one as it is and see how it tastes, just to get the idea of how things work. There will be time later to jack up the alcohol and see how that affects the taste. Modifying the recipe to make a great tasting high alcohol beer isn't real hard but it does take some research into how the malts, hops, and yeast work together to make it come out right.

I think the easiest way to improve it would be to use a quality yeast. A Wyeast smack pack, White Labs tube (at that gravity you're fine not making a starter) or a dry yeast packet.

Thanks for the replies.

RM-MN, my goal is really just to make a brew that I really like. Obviously I want to stay within the realm of my skill level so that it comes out well. Generally I like higher ABV beers, but not because I want to get smashed quickly. I've always, even through college, preferred to sip a stronger quality beer than guzzle a cheap watered down beer.

Part of what excites me about home brewing is having total freedom to brew exactly how I want. I'd just go to the grocery store if I just wanted a pre-specified beer. That said, I don't want to screw up my first attempt by being overconfident. Could you all suggest some simple modifications to this recipe to help me achieve my objectives without adding too much risk?

Thanks again!

Do you know the %AA of the hops that come with it? I can modify your recipe with a late addition of the extract.

If you add 3 lbs of Pale DME, you will get about 6% ABV. OG=1.060
Or, 3.3 lbs of Pale LME, 5.5% ABV. OG=1.055

I would stick with Danstar Nottingham yeast, if that's what came with it (if not, go pick up a pack of it for about $1). It's easy to use, and works wonderfully. Scottish Ales don't necessarily need a lot of yeast character.

As for the smoked malt. I think you'll be just fine. Some recipes even have 4oz of peated malt (super smoky malt)..so it shouldn't be too smoky. But...if you'd rather have a beer that's not smoky enough than too smoky, less will not have any repercussions in the process.

The yeast that came with the kit is Danstar Windsor (11g). Is this good or should I get the Nottingham (or something else)?

Hops
Cascade Bittering Hops: AA 5%, 0.5 oz.
Cascade Aroma Hops: AA 5%, 0.5 oz.
(both pellets)

Could I more water in my boil for additional bitterness? The instructions say to use 2.5 gal, but I have a 24 qt stock pot, so I could probably handle more. I'm just not sure what other effects this might have.

Windsor will be great. It will throw a lot of english fruity esters, which should be good with a scottish ale. I'm just partial to Nottingham.

Since you're in the mood to change the recipe around. Here's what I would suggest:

Steep grains
Add Amber LME
3 gallon boil (start with about 3.5 gallons)

.75oz 5% AA Cascade at 60 minutes
.5oz ~5% AA Fuggles or East Kent Goldings at 15 minutes

Also add the 3.3lbs of Pale LME, and 1 lb. Amber DME at 15 minutes (Take it off the heat and stir well!)

That should give you about 18 IBUs and an OG of 1.055 (5.5%)

More water would add more bitterness, but your stove might not be able to handle a larger boil (especially if it's electric). The Fuggles/EKG hops will also add some good English/Scottish hop character.

I hope that helps. Re-read the important parts of How To Brew, and you should be good to go!

Windsor is probably a good yeast for a Scottish Ale. It won't attenuate as much, leaving a malty and sweeter beer. I thought those kits all came with Munton's yeast or the like for some reason. If you want it dryer, try Nottingham as suggested above.

Thanks for the suggestions.

So (in addition to what I already have in my kit) I just need to buy 3.3 lbs Pale LME and .5oz ~5% AA Fuggles or East Kent Goldings?

Newb question here, but my Cascade bittering hops and aroma hops are the same thing, right? I just want to make sure that I can use .75 of my 1 oz. total and it doesn't matter that they came in two separate bags (labeled bittering and aroma).

Thanks again! This forum is great!

Ill be brewing this same kit up this weekend, but wont be changing the recipie up. This kit is suppose to be like a 60 schilling Scottish ale, so under 3.5% abv. Its suppose to be a easy drinker.

My kit came with the Windor yeast , but with Palisades hops.

mlyday said:

Ill be brewing this same kit up this weekend, but wont be changing the recipie up. This kit is suppose to be like a 60 schilling Scottish ale, so under 3.5% abv. Its suppose to be a easy drinker.

My kit came with the Windor yeast , but with Palisades hops.

Click to expand...

Good idea, I am planning on brewing this kit or similar in about a month or so. While I like stronger beers, it's just a fact that a lot of traditional Scottish Brews ain't very strong, and I plan on keeping it at 3.5% ABV or below.

Yes, they should be the same (I can't see how they wouldn't be).

And that looks like all you would have to buy. If you're confused by the late extract addition, either do some searching on the forums, or I could adjust the recipe without a late addition. Good luck! And remember, RDWHAHB: Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Home Brew!

Sounds good. I remember reading about late extract addition, but I plan on going back and brushing up from Palmer's How to Brew again before starting my batch.

One final question (for now at least ), do I need to do anything special with my dry yeast due to the modified recipe, or proceed as specified?

Thanks!

Nope. Nothing special is needed. Windsor will be fine handling an OG of 1.055 on its own. Proceed as specified!

What do you all think would be good for fermentation/conditioning times? (I've done a bit a reading on this forum and realize I may be opening a can of worms here.) I was wondering if I should leave it in the primary for 3-4 weeks, then maybe 2 - 3 in the bottle, or would it be better to rack it to a secondary for a few weeks after about two in the primary? I don't currently own a secondary, but could pick one up if it would be advantageous for this brew. Looking at the styles that I would like to brew in the future, I'm sure I'll be picking one up eventually anyway.

I use to leave mine in the primary for 2 weeks and then rack to a secondary and ad gelatin, but my last beer I left it in the primary for a month and skipped the secondary and it was one best ones I have done, and was just as clear as the rest of them.
I brewed my BB Scottish ale saturday afternoon and was getting a little worried with no airlock activity by last night. I usually ferment in the basment, but its fairly cold down there, so I moved it up stairs for the night and saw one bubble this morning. once it start bubbling Ill probably move it back down, but thought Id let you know it seems like a slow starter with that yeast at that temp(low to mid 60's).

I would primary for 3-4 weeks and then bottle for at least 3 weeks at 70&#730; (<--very important!). If you're starting up another batch, racking to a secondary would be fine, but I would just leave it in the primary if you don't need to move it.

Sometimes with high gravity, or darker beers (like you have) it can take a while for beers to carbonate after priming. That's why you should keep the bottles in a dark place at around 70&#730; for at least 3 weeks. You'll probably get impatient and try one after 1 or 2 weeks, but don't be surprised if they seem a little undercarbonated.

Sounds good, I'll probably just stick with my primary then for this first batch at least. I do have some concern about keeping my bottles at 70&#730;. My thermostat drops to 62&#730; around 6am until around 3:30 when it goes up to around 65-66&#730;. Once bottled, I was thinking I could maybe store them in the box and put that on top of my refrigerator where there is some additional heat coming up from the back of it. Being in the box should keep light out, any other concerns with this approach?

Also, related to the above, I was looking around my upper level for a good place for the primary. My basement is too cold, as low as the mid-50's. I couldn't really find a good place in an unused closet that isn't on an exterior wall, so I was thinking about somewhere more in the open (where it likely be 2 or 3 degrees warmer), but if I put the primary in a thick black can liner (to block light) and just leave room in the top for the CO2 to escape, would this be ok? I don't have pets or kids around, so I'm not too concerned about it being tampered with.

For carbing bottles, on top of the fridge might be your best bet now during the winter months. It wouldn't get about 80&#730;*up there would it? If that's not convenient, keeping the bottles at normal room temperatures isn't bad, it just might take longer for the bottles to fully carbonate. And yes, a box should work just fine.

For fermenting, I've had the same problem as you (my basement was too cool). Leaving it in an open place should be great, as well as using a black bag to cover it (I often used the box my kit came in). As the yeast start fermenting, the beer inside the bucket/carboy will be warmer than the ambient temperatures. If you can get one of those stick-on aquarium thermometers to put on the fermentation vessel, if the temperature of the beer gets above 70-72&#730; you can move it to a slightly cooler location.

I picked up the extra ingredients last night. The only Pale LME they had was a 4 lbs can. So I now have that plus 1 oz of 4.2% Fuggles (in addition to my 1 oz. Cascade.)

My question is can I go ahead and use the full 4 lbs of Pale LME? How much extra hops should I use? I assume I also need to use even more hops since my Fuggles are 4.2% instead of 5% as assumed in the recipe suggested above. Could/should I throw in the leftover Fuggles at 5 min? I don't want this to come out too "hoppy", but I'm not going to save a small fraction of an ounce of hops if I don't use them.

Also, how does this affect my target OG? Should I just start my boil with 3.5 gallons and dump that into 2 gallons of water in my fermenter when it's done and just go with whatever OG that turns out to be; or I start with less water in my primary, dump in my wort, then add water until my intended OG is achieved.

Thanks again!

dlm3 said:

Also, how does this affect my target OG? Should I just start my boil with 3.5 gallons and dump that into 2 gallons of water in my fermenter when it's done and just go with whatever OG that turns out to be; or I start with less water in my primary, dump in my wort, then add water until my intended OG is achieved.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

The amount you boil shouldn't affect your OG.

What is your intended OG?

Delete!

I'm not really sure what my OG should be? I thought that the amount of DME/LME factors into what my OG will be? I thought that with 7.3 lbs of LME and 1 lbs of DME I would have an estimated OG of 1.061, is this not right?

Should be at about 1.062, this is probably going to turn out much more like a Sour Ale then a Scottish Ale.

I brewed this same kit last winter, but I didn't modify it. 2 weeks in primary and then bottled. The first bottles after 2 weeks tasted awful. Even after 2 months I hated it. It was very smoky and sweet. I boxed the rest up and forgot about them. I recently moved and tried one. After a year it is great. You'll find that advice a lot around here. Don't dump it, just give it time.

Thanks for the tip, cappy.

ongreystreet, what makes you say it will be more like a Sour Ale? That is only style that I'm not very familiar with. Any suggestions on how to keep it more along the lines of a stronger Scottish Ale?

dlm3 said:

Thanks for the tip, cappy.

ongreystreet, what makes you say it will be more like a Sour Ale? That is only style that I'm not very familiar with. Any suggestions on how to keep it more along the lines of a stronger Scottish Ale?

Click to expand...

Very small amounts of low acid hops to large amounts of malt, but I am not sure what your recipe is at this point.

I'm currently planning on going with storunner13's recommendation to add Pale LME and Fuggles to balance the additional malt, to the default recipe from my first post. Is it the additional hops (Fuggles) that make you think this could end up being more of a Sour Ale?

dlm3 said:

I'm currently planning on going with storunner13's recommendation to add Pale LME and Fuggles to balance the additional malt, to the default recipe from my first post. Is it the additional hops (Fuggles) that make you think this could end up being more of a Sour Ale?

Click to expand...

Spell out the entire recipe, and that will help some.

I'm not sure where you're getting the sour ale thing. Unless I have completely missed a post, there's not going to be a sour mash, and lacto or lactic acid added, or acidulated malt.

robtotten said:

I'm not sure where you're getting the sour ale thing. Unless I have completely missed a post, there's not going to be a sour mash, and lacto or lactic acid added, or acidulated malt.

Click to expand...

Yea, you're right on that.

But what I add up has an IBU of like 7. Maybe it's just a very malty and stronger export scotch ale.

I calculated an IBU of about 13.4 with the current recipe, which per http://www.brewsupplies.com/hops-gravity.htm, would probably be too malty. So I was thinking I could use my full oz of Cascade for an hour, add .5 oz Fuggles at 30 min. and the last .5 oz at 15 minutes. According to this calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/), I should end up at about 20.5 IBUs. Which, per the chart above, is just in the "extra malty" range, so probably appropriate for this style.

See the following link for screenshots of my calculations:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47899199@N00/5369558631/

Ok, I get 18 IBU with Beersmith, it's sometimes hard to follow recipes as they change thru a thread.

dlm3. If you're still doing a late addition of extract (3.3 amber LME in the beginning, 1lb DME and 4lbs LME at 15 minutes) I would suggest: .5oz of both Cascade and Fuggles at 60, and then the remaining .5oz of Fuggles at 15. That will give you about 24 IBUs. I'd suggest shooting for a few more IBUs than usual, given an extract recipe with amber malt extract. It tends to have more unfermentables, and therefore might result in a beer which could be too sweet. A more balanced malt/hop ratio is probably best.

However, if you can measure out the LME, you can save the remaining extract for a yeast starter, or a future batch.

I think around 24 IBU sounds fine for this brew. But could you help me with the math though? When I plug what you suggested into the IBU calculator I only got about 16 IBUs. How did you get 24? Also, are you suggesting not using the last .5 oz of Cascade? (.5 of each at 60 plus .5 Fuggles at 30, no mention of that last .5 of Cascade.)

Oh, does doing the late addition increase my IBUs? I guess I was just calculating it as if all of the malt went in from the start. How do you factor in the late addition?

You're right, the late addition increases the hop utilization (and therefore IBUs) because a lower gravity boil increases utilization.


As for figuring it out, it's a bit complicated. I figure out what the boil gravity would be with just the first addition of malt (yours would be around 1.024, which calculates to about 1.015 OG using your calculator) and plug in the first hop addition. With .5oz each of the Cascade and Fuggles I get 21.89 IBUs. Then I plug in the target OG (1.060) and the next addition, .5oz Fuggles for 15 minutes, which is 2.53 IBUs. I usually round down, because you'll loose a little bit of extraction from the extra gravity in last 15 minutes, but I figure it's all water under the bridge.

Does that make sense? I wouldn't make your first brew too complicated. A late addition isn't too complicated to do, but the calculations are a bit tougher.

The Joy of Homebrewing by Charles Papazian has a great table with beer styles and typical ingredient guidelines, helps to keep you in line with what you're trying to make.

I think alerting this much almost makes having the kit pointless.

If you're going to change this recipe, I would suggest:

1) Go look at this book or similar table, determine if you want a light, heavy, export, or strong scotch ale.

2) Using Table, determine how much total malt you need to do this.

3) Using Table, determine how much bittering and aroma hops you'll need.

4) Double check recipe with something like beersmith (free trial) and at least one person you trust.

I would suggest only one malt addition and two hop additions.

That makes sense, thanks for the additional info.

I was reading back through How to Brew and in the yeast section Palmer said that dry packets usually have around 70 billion cells, then on the next page there was a chart show how many cells should be used for various gravity beers and I think for around a 1.060 OG brew it said I would need in the neighborhood of twice as many cells.

Should I just rehydrate my single packet, then pitch it? Would my fermentation just take a little longer while the cell count increases? Should I purchase another packet, or try to make a starter using some of the extra Pale LME? If doing a starter, do I need to buy some yeast nutrient too?