Trying to reprime flat batch, when something happened...

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MiraMonster

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So I brewed the NB American Wheat ale awhile back. I let it sit for 3 weeks before I opened my first bottle. To my despair, there was almost no carbonation . So I let it sit for a few more weeks to see if maybe it was dragging. However this didn't change the situation.
So I'm in the process of trying to save my batch. I added a 1/4 tspn of priming sugar to the first bottle and it foamed up and over the bottle!

This leads me to a series of questions:
1. Is my brew unsalvagable?
2. Why would it foam over immediately after adding the sugar if it was flat?
3. Does the foam mean that my beer just needs even MORE time?

I am still very new (this is my second batch) to this. Forgive me if this has been answered before.

MM
 
Was there any pressure at all? How long was the beer refrigerated before you opened one? New to this to and dove into my first batch last night, found out that it needs to be refrigerated for 4-6 hours before you drink, carbonation is in the dead space at the top of bottle and the beer won't absorb it until it has been in the fridge for an amount of time, tonight will be 22 hours and will crack a few
 
I kept mine in the fridge for 24 hours the first time, then a few days the second time. Same results both times, unfortunately.
There was a slight, and I mean SLIGHT, gas release when I opened the bottle. But hardly noticeable.
I think I may have skimped on the priming solution during the bottling stage...
 
What I can think of here is that maybe your bottling technique is lacking precision. How did you add the priming sugar? Did you boil the sugar? Did you mix the sugar gently into the beer before bottling? Did you filter you beer? Did you cold crash, if so when and for how long? What was the temperature at bottling?

How long was it in primary and secondary? Is it possible the temperate went high or too low?
 
I've done exactly this before. What's happening is that there is SOME CO2 dissolved in the beer; when you add the sugar it acts as nucleation sites for the carbon dioxide to form on.

The only real solution is to add it very, very quickly. I employed my wife to add the sugar while I sat poised over the bottle with the capper and a cap. You can actually do a decent job of recarbing this way.
 
Actually, the way to avoid the "Mentos and Diet Coke" scenario is simple, I have done this before: dissolve the sugar in water and the problem is solved!
Good luck!
 
Was there any pressure at all? How long was the beer refrigerated before you opened one? New to this to and dove into my first batch last night, found out that it needs to be refrigerated for 4-6 hours before you drink, carbonation is in the dead space at the top of bottle and the beer won't absorb it until it has been in the fridge for an amount of time, tonight will be 22 hours and will crack a few

This is not really accurate advice. The carbonation happens within the first week after bottling, and the weeks you wait after that are conditioning the beer. The refermentation happens withing a few days and when the pressure builds up as the yeast offgas co2, it is dissolved back into the beer. Putting them in colder temperature actually makes the yeast go dormant which will slow the carbonation down. It is often recommended to place your beer in a warmer part of your house if it's not carbonating well.
 
Your beer was likely carbed, under carbed but still carbed. What it sounds like to me is when you added the sugar you introduced more nucleation points for CO2 to off gas from, thus creating the diet coke and mentos effect. There are numerous variables for under carbonation:

1) Quantity of sugar or other fermentable used
2) Time allowed for fermentable to well...ferment.
3) Temperature at which you allowed it to carb/ferment under.
4) Was there enough viable yeast in suspension to get the job done.
 
I've done exactly this before. What's happening is that there is SOME CO2 dissolved in the beer; when you add the sugar it acts as nucleation sites for the carbon dioxide to form on.

The only real solution is to add it very, very quickly. I employed my wife to add the sugar while I sat poised over the bottle with the capper and a cap. You can actually do a decent job of recarbing this way.

I basically did exactly this. Just moved quickly.

The first priming attempt I did dissolve the sugar in water. What I'm thinking happened was that I didn't properly mix the priming solution into the beer while in the bottling bucket. ONE of my bottles of was originally over-carbed (But tasted great!).

I just added 1/4 -1/2 of a tspn of priming sugar directly and recapped (quickly to avoid overflow). Made sure to mix the sugar and yeast into solution and boxed them up for repriming. I took some steps to prevent a mess in case I inadvertently made some bottle bombs.
I'll update in 3 weeks to see how it goes.
 
What temperature did the bottles sit for 3 or more weeks to condition? If they were left in a place that was too cool... the yeasties will go dormant or be sluggish, and not do their job.

Gary
 
What temperature did the bottles sit for 3 or more weeks to condition? If they were left in a place that was too cool... the yeasties will go dormant or be sluggish, and not do their job.

Gary

It was low 60's when i bottle conditioned it. I added more sugar and upped the temp to mid to high 60's. So far they haven't exploded *knock on wood*
 
It was low 60's when i bottle conditioned it. I added more sugar and upped the temp to mid to high 60's. So far they haven't exploded *knock on wood*

I'm afraid that you're in "crap shoot" mode at this point. I'd want to put those bottles in a tub and condition them someplace where they won't make too much of a mess if they blow.

Next time, use an online priming calc, target 2.4-2.5 volumes of CO2 and WEIGH the priming sugar.
 
Bottle conditioning needs to be a tad warmer for yeasties to accomplish their mission. When I was bottling beer I used to condition at around 72 degrees. Basically room temp or so.

Keep the bottles just above 70 degrees and you should be good. But since you added more sugar... you'll likely have afew bombs.

Gary
 
grohr said:
it needs to be refrigerated for 4-6 hours before you drink, carbonation is in the dead space at the top of bottle and the beer won't absorb it until it has been in the fridge for an amount of time

I don't know where you heard this but it isn't true. You can refrigerate a properly carbonated beer for 1 hour or zero hours, whatever. The CO2 is not waiting for refrigeration before it will saturate the liquid.
 
Was there any pressure at all? How long was the beer refrigerated before you opened one? New to this to and dove into my first batch last night, found out that it needs to be refrigerated for 4-6 hours before you drink, carbonation is in the dead space at the top of bottle and the beer won't absorb it until it has been in the fridge for an amount of time, tonight will be 22 hours and will crack a few

I don't know where you heard this but it isn't true. You can refrigerate a properly carbonated beer for 1 hour or zero hours, whatever. The CO2 is not waiting for refrigeration before it will saturate the liquid.
I heard 24-48 hours at least and it was always from this site.
 
I don't know where you heard this but it isn't true. You can refrigerate a properly carbonated beer for 1 hour or zero hours, whatever. The CO2 is not waiting for refrigeration before it will saturate the liquid.

I cannot agree with this ^^^^^^^ at all.

Carbon Dioxide solubility in water goes up as temperature goes down. At normal conditions, carbon dioxide will be most soluble just above the freezing point of water. At just above the freezing point 100 gms of water will hold 0.33 gms of carbon dioxide, but less than half that at room temperature.

On an anecdotal level, I've noticed that beers from the same batch left to chill 3+ days in the fridge lose less of their CO2 during the pour (they don't foam as much) and maintain their carbonation better even as they briefly sit and warm to ale drinking temp (low 50's). That fridge time also causes the yeast trub in the bottle bottom to stay put better when you pour.
 
I would imagine that the level of additional carbonation change from one bottle that was carbonated at room temperature, then put in the fridge is most likely negligible. Yes you can carb higher at lower temps, but when bottle conditioning, it has to be at the warmer temps for the yeast to function. And I've never had a bottle double its carbonation volume by being in the fridge. Also, the pressure in the bottle decreases as you cool it down, this is a key factor in carbonation as well.

If you take a cold beer and pour it into a cold glass it will foam far less, however, if you take a cold beer and put it in a warm glass, it will foam more. This is why its recommended to chill bottles before bottling from a keg. The temperature swing is what knocks the co2 out of solution since it does not dissolve into liquid but rather is held in suspension separated by the liquid. Cola poured over Ice will lose much more co2 than pouring it into an empty cup.


I cannot agree with this ^^^^^^^ at all.

Carbon Dioxide solubility in water goes up as temperature goes down. At normal conditions, carbon dioxide will be most soluble just above the freezing point of water. At just above the freezing point 100 gms of water will hold 0.33 gms of carbon dioxide, but less than half that at room temperature.

On an anecdotal level, I've noticed that beers from the same batch left to chill 3+ days in the fridge lose less of their CO2 during the pour (they don't foam as much) and maintain their carbonation better even as they briefly sit and warm to ale drinking temp (low 50's). That fridge time also causes the yeast trub in the bottle bottom to stay put better when you pour.
 
UPDATE: It's been a few more weeks after repriming them. I cracked the first one and......
It was flat. Cracked a second one and it was slightly carbonated. I think this batch is basically dead. Hopefully my pumpkin ale comes out alright.
 
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