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Old 04-27-2010, 03:18 AM   #11
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Frodo - Love Nevada City. Got a growler around the house somewhere from a brewery around there. Cant remember the name and its been a while, but i remember it as a good beer.
Maybe the Stone House? I just moved here a year ago, but that used to be a brewery in town I think - out of business now - and it's a friggin awesome building that would make a great brew-pub. Too bad I don't have $1.5 million just to start.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:27 AM   #12
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So what I did last time (never researched it, but seemed like a logical thing to do) was to kind of sparge the grain bag with fresh water over the pot and let that run in. I mean, I would have to add more plain water to the primary anyway, as I am doing partial boils, so I figured this was at least somewhat better and I didn't have to hold the bag forever.

Someone feel free to slap me on the wrist if for some reason that's a bad idea.

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Old 04-27-2010, 03:45 AM   #13
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I think its fine to rinse the grain bag...but not too much, for the same reason as squeezing. I supposed it would be like oversparging, and lead to possible tannins.

Doesn't sound like you did that though, your arm would probably get tired before that happened. On that note, I find the bag to be pretty heavy...I'm lazy and don't like lifting it...so you can try rising it after putting it in a colander over a bowl or something, then just let it sit while things come up to a boil.

Also, I like to use the "dryness" and puckering of your mouth after drinking some cranberry juice as a reference for astringency. Just another example to help drive that one home.

-Brian

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Old 04-27-2010, 03:59 AM   #14
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I think its fine to rinse the grain bag...but not too much, for the same reason as squeezing. I supposed it would be like oversparging, and lead to possible tannins. [...]

-Brian
You're right, I attempted not to rinse it too much - perhaps a cup or two of water total. I didn't mention that the rinse water was room temperature.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:11 PM   #15
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Crap, well, i squeezed out the bag for my current brew (instructions didn't say not to). it is a double IPA. Will let you know how it turns out in another 4 weeks or so.

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Old 04-27-2010, 03:25 PM   #16
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There's been some tests that have disproved the whole "don't squeeze the grain bag, because you will leech tannins" idea. I think there's even been a couple experiments on here detailed in threads. I think it's been pretty well shot down as one of those "old school" beliefs, that turn out to have little effect.

In fact if you are doing AG "Brew in a Bag" you are encouraged to squeeze the grain bag. They even showed it on basic brewing recently, the took a ladder with a hook attached, hung the grain bag, and twisted the hell out of it to drain every ounce of precious wort out of bag of grain.

This should launch as an mp-4

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicb...10cornpils.mp4

So is that's the case, that it is "OK" to do in AG Brew in the bag, then why would it really be bad in extract with grains brewing?

I wouldn't worry about it.

From BYO, MR Wizard;

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The two most influential factors affecting the extraction of tannins from malt into wort are pH and temperature. All-grain brewers are very careful not to allow wort pH to reach more than about pH 6 during sparging because tannin extraction increases with pH. In all-grain brewing wort pH typically rises during the last stages of wort collection and is one of the factors letting the brewer know that wort collection should be stopped.....

Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F.

This is where the answer to your last question begins. You ask whether steeping and sparging released "unwanted tannins" in your beer. For starters, all beer contains tannins. Some tannins are implicated in haze and some lend astringent flavors to beer.

The type most homebrewers are concerned about are those affecting flavor. In any case, it is up to the brewer to decide if the level of tannins in their beer is too high. The (in)famous decoction mash is frequently recommended when a brewer is in search of more malt flavor. Decoction mashes boil malt and — among analytical brewers who are not afraid of rocking the boat with unpopular ideas — are known to increase the astringent character associated with tannins. In general I wouldn’t consider 170° F dangerously high with respect to tannin extraction. However, if you believe your beers may suffer because of too much astringency, consider adjusting your steep pH and lowering the temperature a few degrees.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:47 PM   #17
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There's been some tests that have disproved the whole "don't squeeze the grain bag, because you will leech tannins" idea. I think there's even been a couple experiments on here detailed in threads. I think it's been pretty well shot down as one of those "old school" beliefs, that turn out to have little effect.

In fact if you are doing AG "Brew in a Bag" you are encouraged to squeeze the grain bag. They even showed it on basic brewing recently, the took a ladder with a hook attached, hung the grain bag, and twisted the hell out of it to drain every ounce of precious wort out of bag of grain.

This should launch as an mp-4

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicb...10cornpils.mp4

So is that's the case, that it is "OK" to do in AG Brew in the bag, then why would it really be bad in extract with grains brewing?

I wouldn't worry about it.

From BYO, MR Wizard;
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Originally Posted by cheschire View Post
I see. Now that you mention it, (as I drink a homebrew) I can taste them tannins in comparison to one that isnt squeezed.

No squeezing for Me!
Seems we have conflicting data here. It might come down to personal experience your case. I suppose that if you notice an undesirable consequence, stop doing it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:43 PM   #18
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Seems we have conflicting data here. It might come down to personal experience your case. I suppose that if you notice an undesirable consequence, stop doing it.
I've come to notice that what most new brewers attribute to "tannins" turns out to be just green beer, as does self diagnosis of diacetyl, autolysis, and some of the other things listed as "off flavors." When you push the brewer further and find out the age of the beer, you find out that the beer is really young, usually younger than the three weeks the we recommend as a minimum for a beer to lose it's green-ness.

I have come to take 99% of the self diagnosis on here with a grain of salt. Just because someone declares that they taste a certain thing, doesn't mean 1) it IS a certain thing, 2) doesn't mean that it isn't greeness masking itself as an off flavor, 3)The person doesn't know what he's talking about and is calling something one-thing when it really is something else.

Again, how come it is ok in AG brew in a bag, and not in extract with grains?
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:15 PM   #19
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Again, how come it is ok in AG brew in a bag, and not in extract with grains?
Excellent question! I DO NOT have the answer, but I do squeeze the grain bag while brewing an extract kit with specialty grains. I want ALL the wort I can possibly get...and wringing it out of the steeped grains seemed logical.

I have not noticed ANY off-tastes in any of my brews thus far. I will continue to gently squeeze the wort out of the grains until Judgment Day or someone has a DEFINITIVE answer.

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Old 04-28-2010, 01:18 PM   #20
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Squeezed the hell out of the first few batches I did with grains, and paid the price in terms of beer quality!

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