Recipes from my seller

Hi!

I do 2.5 (10 litres) batches and I have like a "curse".
All of my dark beers (Porter, Stout) comes out bright in colour, non of them came close to black, and of course this is very disappointing.

I told that to the seller at the store, because these are the types of beer that I like the most, and he suggested that I take the full amount of specialty grains for my half batch (10 litre) of Porter, so I have double the colour/taste etc...

While this could work, I'm afraid that will be too much in taste, I want that to be a Porter, not a Stout, while I do like a lot of flavour and burnt taste.

He also gave me a recipe for a Brown Ale, could you guys suggest me what to do here? Should I take his advice or dilute it to a bigger batch?

Porter:
Light LME - 1.5k
Carafa 1 - 150g (5.2oz)
Carafa 3 - 150g (5.2oz)
CaraBohemian - 200 (7oz)
Smoked - 100g (3.5oz)
Dark Wheat - 200g (7oz)
15 grams (1/2 ounce) Fuggles hops (he told me I can use the other half for 15min aroma. true?)


Brown Ale:
Light LME - 1.5k
Caramunich 3 - 150g
Carafa 1 - 100g
Munich 1 - 200g
15 grams (1/2 ounce) Willamette hops

What would you do?

I would change out the light LME for an appropriate dark LME or DME for a porter. This may be the main issue.

Specialty grain bill looks pretty good. What is your procedure for steeping the grains? The steeping for extraction may also play a role in the color problem.

light extract sells more, so chances are it's fresher than the darker

GrogNerd said:

light extract sells more, so chances are it's fresher than the darker

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And you have much more control over the final flavor (and, presumably, color) by using light extract. You have no idea how the darker stuff was made - crystal malts? Chocolate malts? Black malt? A combination? How much?

I agree that we need more info about your process. At first glance the types and amounts of your dark grains look ok.

Are the grains crushed enough? At what temp are you steeping them? For how long? Are your volume measurements accurate?

Hi,

When I asked the seller why the light LME, that's what he said as well.
Using this LME with this recipe, would I be able to get the colour and flavours I need?

I heat my water (all 10 litres) to 70 degrees C, and the I put my grains in a bag for about 30 minutes with the lid closed, lifting up the bag occasionally, and that's it.
Do you think I need to change that somehow? maybe heat the water with the grains in the pot?

I use a simple glass thermometer from the beer store

For extract batches there isn't much point in doing full wort boils. Steep in four liters of water instead of 10. Then conduct your full boil with just four liters of water and all your lme. You will get more concenteated sugar-to-water ratio in your wort in the boil, which will lead to kettle caramelization, and thus darker colors and more complex flavor.

After flameout, and in the rest of water, pre-chilled. You'll be at pitching temps instantly.

I get mixed opinions about that, well, I half a huge pot so I can boil a full batch, but I do it mostly for the hops working on the whole batch.
Would you actually suggest NOT doing a full boil?

If I decide to boil the full batch, what is the reason for steeping in a smaller amount of water instead of in full 10 litres?

Tamir said:

I get mixed opinions about that, well, I half a huge pot so I can boil a full batch, but I do it mostly for the hops working on the whole batch.
Would you actually suggest NOT doing a full boil?

If I decide to boil the full batch, what is the reason for steeping in a smaller amount of water instead of in full 10 litres?

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No, I'd still do a full boil.

Your recipe looks pretty dark, that's why I'm confused. That carafa III should be black in color. You could increase the carafa III a bit, and that should give you a darker color.

What's the flavor of these beers? Are they good in flavor, but just too light in color?

Is the carafa malt regular carafa or carafa special? Carafa special is not overly roasty that could cause your roast flavor to be low but it should be very dark. Are your grains crushed? That's the only thing that I can think of.

This is the first time I'm doing this recipe, and it is doubled in steeping grains like I mentioned, so I'll have to check this one first.
I was actually afraid that because it is a double amount of grains it would be "too much".

Can you tell me if there's something wrong with steeping the grains in the full amount of water?

Is the carafa malt regular carafa or carafa special? Carafa special is not overly roasty that could cause your roast flavor to be low but it should be very dark. Are your grains crushed? That's the only thing that I can think of.

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They're I and III, not special. I believe they are equal to chocolate and black patent. Yes, they were crushed a few days ago.

BigJack said:

For extract batches there isn't much point in doing full wort boils. Steep in four liters of water instead of 10. Then conduct your full boil with just four liters of water and all your lme. You will get more concenteated sugar-to-water ratio in your wort in the boil, which will lead to kettle caramelization, and thus darker colors and more complex flavor.

After flameout, and in the rest of water, pre-chilled. You'll be at pitching temps instantly.

Click to expand...

Poor Information.
Hop utilization is decreased on partial boils, compensating hop additions could help here but why waste more hops when OP can full boil?

"caramelizing sugars" lead to unfermentable sugars and thus the dreaded 1.020 FG extract wall.

Tamir said:

I get mixed opinions about that, well, I half a huge pot so I can boil a full batch, but I do it mostly for the hops working on the whole batch.
Would you actually suggest NOT doing a full boil?

If I decide to boil the full batch, what is the reason for steeping in a smaller amount of water instead of in full 10 litres?

Click to expand...

DO a full boil if you can.
This also prevents contamination from top up water.

Benefits to "partial mashing" with a set amount of water/grain with enough enzymatic basemalt will contribute to gravity instead of just color.

BigJack said:

For extract batches there isn't much point in doing full wort boils. Steep in four liters of water instead of 10. Then conduct your full boil with just four liters of water and all your lme. You will get more concenteated sugar-to-water ratio in your wort in the boil, which will lead to kettle caramelization, and thus darker colors and more complex flavor.

After flameout, and in the rest of water, pre-chilled. You'll be at pitching temps instantly.

Click to expand...

I gotta quit posting while taking NyQuil.