reallllly on the fence !!!!

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gnr9933

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Ok so here's my dillema..... I'm ready to step my brewing game up and I'm not sure where to go with this option #1 10 gallon deluxe all grain brew set up which inludes :

1- 10 gallon cooler MLT with false bottom and valve setup
1- 10 gallon cooler HLT with sparge arm and all tubing w/ valve setup
1- 10 gallon mega pot with thermo and valve setup

or stay doing extract and partial mash and go with

1- 5 gallon deluxe keg system ( I bottle now)

1- 5 gallon keg ( corny )
1- 10 lb co2 tank
1- dual regulator all hoses etc w/ picnic faucet

now heres the deal I want BOTH but can only afford one or the other.
What do you all think is in the long run is best to spend the money on i'm ready for all grain but so damn tired of bottles. Thanks in advance for the advice.
 
Reap the rewards of kegging. It will inspire you to brew more in the short term. The other equipment will come in time.
 
I agree on the kegging set up. Don't have to store tons of bottles around anymore and it saves tons of time. I keep about 30-40 around to bottle off the keg to give out to friends.
 
I would def go with the kegging. Going to all grain is only as expensive as you want it to be. I love kegging beer, (although I do still bottle some times) and for some reason people are so impressed when you have your own beer on tap.
 
I am going to go against the grain (pun intended) and say there are more important things than kegging. Kegging will not improve your beers.

Things you should look at first before kegging. First do you have a good way to control fermentation temps. If not you should do this. Second do you pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast? If not get a stir plate and look at makng starters. These two things will greatly improve your beers. If you do these already then great.

Getting into all grain does not have to be expensive. It does give you more control over your final brew than extract and you can make some beers that just cannot be done with extract. So I would look at this first. It is not a race, you can take more time getting into kegging while you improve your process. Do things as you can afford them. But I would prioritize towards making better beer over kegging.
 
Personally I would hold off on the kegging gear and go with the all grain first (see about piecing your own together instead of going with the kit if you want to save money); unless you absolutely hate bottling and think it might actually keep you from brewing beer. If that is the case then I would get the kegging gear first.
 
Keep in mind, you can't do much more than a 6 gallon batch in a 10 gallon BK. To get 6 gallons out, you need about 7.75 gallons going into it.

I don't keg. But I did just switch from a MLT and BK to BIAB in a keggle.

Here's my advice: if you want to keg, get the kegging system. Then spend your next ~$150 building a keggle for BIAB. That will give you the flexibility for doing brews larger than 5 - 6 gallons when you want to. When you want to move to 3 vessel brewing, convert the keggle for a HERMS or RIMS.
 
CGVT said:
The Cult of BIAB should show up any minute now...

;)
Click to expand...

The Cult of BIAB should have shown up on the second post. Add a $5 bag and you would be all grain and can spend the rest of the money on kegging system or fermentation chamber. That way you don't have to make a choice.:ban:
 
Kegging for sure. However, you can easily use a 5 gallon igloo cooler with 9" false bottom and $30 tap. I sourced my own parts and built a mash tun for around 90.
 
First, temp control for fermentation. Then 15G kettle / burner with BIAB. Efficient way to spend little $ and make great brew. Bottle in bombers, use a bench capper. I keg and bottle now, but kegging doesn't make beer better, it is a great convenience.
 
CGVT said:
What took you so long?
Click to expand...

I worked a 10 hour day yesterday and only posted during my dinner break.

Why does it matter so much to you that one of us suggested BIAB? The OP came with a false dichotomy, I can only afford to do all grain or set up a kegging system. I brought a solution that allows both for a minimal difference in cost. Does it bother you that I can make all grain beer without an expensive 3 vessel system and a brew sculpture? Do you think you can only make beer if you spend a few hundred dollars on equipment? Does it bother you that I can have my all grain beer in the fermenter in 3 hours instead of 6 or more hours that many of the all grain brewers require with their full system?
 
Beernik said:
Keep in mind, you can't do much more than a 6 gallon batch in a 10 gallon BK. To get 6 gallons out, you need about 7.75 gallons going into it.

I don't keg. But I did just switch from a MLT and BK to BIAB in a keggle.

Here's my advice: if you want to keg, get the kegging system. Then spend your next ~$150 building a keggle for BIAB. That will give you the flexibility for doing brews larger than 5 - 6 gallons when you want to. When you want to move to 3 vessel brewing, convert the keggle for a HERMS or RIMS.
Click to expand...


I agree w/ this re the size of your BK. I do six gal batches & use a 15 gal BK. Plus you should consider at least a 10 gal HLT.
Last, a ten gal MLT is too small if you're going to do ten gal batches. Again , I use a ten gal cooler MLT for 6 gal batches and on a few beers I've had to do multiple sparges because the tun couldn't accommodate the volume.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
+1 on BIAB...5 dollar curtain and a 15G kettle. Only issue I have is when I make a Barleywine or my "wee-heaviest" with almost 20lb of grain for a 5 gallon batch. Then I rely on my massive 120 quart cooler converted for batch sparging.
 
gnr9933 said:
Ok so here's my dillema..... I'm ready to step my brewing game up and I'm not sure where to go with this option #1 10 gallon deluxe all grain brew set up which inludes :

1- 10 gallon cooler MLT with false bottom and valve setup
1- 10 gallon cooler HLT with sparge arm and all tubing w/ valve setup
1- 10 gallon mega pot with thermo and valve setup
Click to expand...

The 10-gallon cooler HLT is completely unnecessary and is a total waste of your money, unless you're really hell bent on fly sparging. If you're not, and you'd rather batch sparge, then you can accomplish the same thing with a 5-gallon bucket instead of dropping close to $75 on a cooler with unnecessary fittings.

I also keg and do enjoy that so I can see why you're conflicted.

However, do you have temperature control to ferment your beer? Do you have a stir plate to make yeast starters? I'd really recommend picking up a chest freezer and temperature controller as using them as a fermentation chamber. This is the single biggest improvement that you can make with your home brewing.
 
Just to play devil's advocate here: why not spend a little money on things to make bottling easier? $50-60 bucks could get you a fast rack and a bottle sprayer. Ever since that investment I have not minded bottling as much. I keg and I still bottle many of my beers out of sheer convenience.

Then with the money you save you can build a fermentation chamber!
 
Why is it that on this board, with in 10 posts to any question, there is some jackhole who pipes in with "fermentation temperature"? Not everybody in the world brews lagers and with ales it just isn't that critical. Will it make a difference? Sure. Will all of the unicorns die if you don't? Probably not. Stick the fermenter in an unused closet or a spare bedroom and RDWHAHB.
 
charliehorse said:
Why is it that on this board, with in 10 posts to any question, there is some jackhole who pipes in with "fermentation temperature"? .
Click to expand...

Because fermentation control is arguably the single most important aspect of creating the beer you intended to create.

I can only speak from personal experience but for me, building a fermentation chamber is what took me from making beer I had talk myself into drinking to beer I enjoyed drinking.

Mind you I live in South Florida where it is always hot.

YMMV

What advice would you give?
 
If I lived in South Florida, I'd keep my house at 75 and not worry. Even at 80, you would experience a bunch of problems. How much temperature control do you think that the Irish used when they crated Guinness in the mid 1700's? That said, the first person to bring up temperature control is in NJ. I'm sure htat he has a huge problem with ambient temp in the spring and fall.
 
I would start kegging first. Then save up for all grain equipment and there are some things on your list you can make yourself to save money
 
charliehorse said:
Why is it that on this board, with in 10 posts to any question, there is some jackhole who pipes in with "fermentation temperature"? Not everybody in the world brews lagers and with ales it just isn't that critical. Will it make a difference? Sure. Will all of the unicorns die if you don't? Probably not. Stick the fermenter in an unused closet or a spare bedroom and RDWHAHB.
Click to expand...

If you want to only ferment at specific times of the year and have no control over where you're fermenting at, sticking it in a random closet will work just fine. If you want to brew the best beer possible (and believe it makes a huge difference) whenever you want then a fermentation chamber is the best investment you can make. Ignorance is bliss though, I suppose.
 
charliehorse said:
Why is it that on this board, with in 10 posts to any question, there is some jackhole who pipes in with "fermentation temperature"? Not everybody in the world brews lagers and with ales it just isn't that critical. Will it make a difference? Sure. Will all of the unicorns die if you don't? Probably not. Stick the fermenter in an unused closet or a spare bedroom and RDWHAHB.
Click to expand...

I am the jackhole you are refering to and I am sure that 95% of the brewers here will agree that temp control is critical to making GOOD beer. I do not brew lagers and your statement about temp control for ales is not critical is just soooo wrong. Sure I live in NJ and ther are really only a few months of the year where my basement is cool enough to get a good fermentation temp. Fermentation is exothermic and creates heat so an ambient temp of 70 may actually create a fermentation temp as high as 80. Way to hot for even most ale yeasts.

If you are happy with your beers fermented too hot then good for you but I stand by my advice of getting fermentation temp control as one of the most important things you can do to make GOOD beer.
 
charliehorse said:
If I lived in South Florida, I'd keep my house at 75 and not worry.
Click to expand...

Then you like estery beer. I keep my house at 72. Without temperature control, just about every beer I made tasted like bananas. :ban:

I mean I have nothing against bananas, but for the love of God they have no place in my IPA.

charliehorse said:
Even at 80, you would experience a bunch of problems. How much temperature control do you think that the Irish used when they crated Guinness in the mid 1700's?
Click to expand...

What type of sanitizer do you think they used? I guess sanitization is not that important then eh?
 
I'd keep my house at 75 and not worry. Even at 80,
Click to expand...

I figured it out. Charlie has a side business selling rocket fuel to NASA. Because at those temps the fusels will produce just that.
 
Well gents, I believe we have made a solid case for temperature control of some form. Charliehorse is really annoyed by encouraging someone to construct/buy a proper fermentation chamber, but that's not really our concern.

I would be really remiss, however, if I didn't mention that finding a way to control fermentation temperature was the single best investment I made in the hobby. I would rather have that then a 10 gallon boil kettle and propane burner.

Just as a little side note: I have friends who brew together and make otherwise great beers that very consistently get creamed with high and fluctuating temps and the beer suffers. They are building a chamber tomorrow! My point being that eventually everyone (except maybe Charliehorse) comes around to it.
 
It's not that temperature control isn't a valid step in brewing, it's just exactly that, a step. It gets tiresome to see somebody ask a legitimate question about, say, which grain mill to buy and within 10 posts the temperature control Nazis come swooping in like a pterodactyl, hijacking the thread to preach that if a brewer doesn't control his temperatures, his beer will taste like mud, but if you do use temperature control, unicorn riding gnomes arrive on your brew to handle the clean up and your wife turns into some sort of porn star (or Disney Princess, depending on the post).

In the case of this thread, the OP was questioning if he should move to all grain or start kegging first. By post number 9, the Nazis started invading Poland. If somebody asks a "How can I make my beer better?" question, point the toward LOOKING at fermentation temps. If the person lives in Alaska, that's probably not needed. Also, if they ask about where the best place to buy bulk grain online, it's probably not needed there. If somebody asks about buying a larger brewing kettle, you probably don't need to talk about temperatures. Likewise with building a msh tun or converting a sanke keg.

The point it, stay on topic. Admittedly, there are a lot of things that can improve beer and temperature control is only one of them. Pitching enough yeast makes a big difference too, but in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum", I'm not going to advocate complicating the process for somebody who just bought his first recipe kit or has 2 or 3 batches under his belt or is brewing his first all grain batch this weekend.

I'm sure that the 20-something new brewer doesn't have the funds to slap down his credit card and buy $10,000 in brewing hardware to start out a hobby that he knows nothing about. He might have the money to drop $100 on an equipment kit and $40 for a recipe kit and gradually move up from there.
 
charliehorse said:
It's not that temperature control isn't a valid step in brewing, it's just exactly that, a step. It gets tiresome to see somebody ask a legitimate question about, say, which grain mill to buy and within 10 posts the temperature control Nazis come swooping in like a pterodactyl, hijacking the thread to preach that if a brewer doesn't control his temperatures, his beer will taste like mud, but if you do use temperature control, unicorn riding gnomes arrive on your brew to handle the clean up and your wife turns into some sort of porn star (or Disney Princess, depending on the post).

In the case of this thread, the OP was questioning if he should move to all grain or start kegging first. By post number 9, the Nazis started invading Poland. If somebody asks a "How can I make my beer better?" question, point the toward LOOKING at fermentation temps. If the person lives in Alaska, that's probably not needed. Also, if they ask about where the best place to buy bulk grain online, it's probably not needed there. If somebody asks about buying a larger brewing kettle, you probably don't need to talk about temperatures. Likewise with building a msh tun or converting a sanke keg.

The point it, stay on topic. Admittedly, there are a lot of things that can improve beer and temperature control is only one of them. Pitching enough yeast makes a big difference too, but in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum", I'm not going to advocate complicating the process for somebody who just bought his first recipe kit or has 2 or 3 batches under his belt or is brewing his first all grain batch this weekend.

I'm sure that the 20-something new brewer doesn't have the funds to slap down his credit card and buy $10,000 in brewing hardware to start out a hobby that he knows nothing about. He might have the money to drop $100 on an equipment kit and $40 for a recipe kit and gradually move up from there.
Click to expand...

Fair enough man. I get the idea of wanting to stay on-topic. But I also think that most of the time when people mention temp control, they're doing so in an effort to help someone brew beer that tastes better as opposed to getting all 'Nazi' on them. To me, that seems like a pretty friendly thing to do. Off-topic? Quite possibly. An offense worthy of being called a jackhole? Not likely.

Cheers and enjoy the brew.
 
charliehorse said:
The point it, stay on topic.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

You should probably follow your own advice BTW. You have yet to offer anything of any use in this thread. (sadly I don't think I did either)

I don't recall the OP asking what your opinion (or mine for that matter) is regarding the patterns of advice given on this forum. Temperature control may be repetitive advice but at least it is useful. Out of place, perhaps, but useful.

I won't participate in derailing this thread anymore, and contrary to my signature, I will apologize to the OP for my part in flipping the train off it's tracks.
 
charliehorse said:
Jackhole = bringing the same topic up on every single thread on the forum.
Click to expand...

The OP started a thread very recently asking about ways to control temps. If he is looking for a way to make his beer better, and has a few bucks to spend (as this thread would seem to indicate), then controlling temps will do worlds more good than going AG or kegging, su it seems like helpful advice as far as I can tell. RDWHAHB.

I choose to redefine your term. Jackhole = Well intentioned and helpful bunch of fellas that unintentionally irritate one thin-skinned member on an internet forum while trying to help another member of said forum.
 
Sorry OP, I hope you got the main ideas from this thread before it dissolved into quarreling.

The OP was asking for opinions between two very specific options. If (as Charliehorse says) any other suggestion is off topic, then I rescind my previous posts.

If the OP is set on one or the other, get the kegging system. If bottling beer is running the risk of ruining your love of the hobby, keg it!
 
I vote for the 15 gallon brew pot, so you can do 10 gallon batches. I like to be able to occasionally double up on a batch to refill a sagging pipeline. Of course I'm one of those rare birds that doesn't loath bottling. Its kinda like zen to me. Pull the handle, fill a bottle, cap it, box it, repeat. I've formulated more than one new recipie while capping a case. When I stepped up from my 7.5 gallon turkey fryer I looked at the 10 gllon and thought "that's not a lot bigger than what I'm using now"
 
After reading through all this I think you should now be in the market for 1bbl nano brewery.
 

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