IPA Recipe Comments

I've looked at several IPA recipes and did some basic math (dangerous, I know). Based on what I've read, I came up with this. The idea is something sort of citrus tasting like a Two Hearted (not an exact clone, but that style). I know there are clone recipes out there, and I looked at some of those, but part of the purpose behind this recipe was to cobble things together to see if I understand some of the why's and what's. Anyway, what I did was to take some all grain recipes and try to convert to extract to see if I understood the basics. I ended up with a partial mash so as to avoid using a partial can of LME without lowering my expected ABV (adding some fermentables from the grain bill). Any comments to this recipe/process?

IPA

Goal:

ABV = 6.5% - 7.0%
IBU = 55-60
OG = 1.060 - 1.065
FG = 1.011

Proposed Ingredients:

Malt Extract:
(6.6) lbs Light LME

Grains:
(2) lbs Vienna Malt
(1/2) lbs. Caramel/Crystal Malt 20L
(1/2) lbs. Cara-Pils

Hops:
(5) oz Centennial 9.5% hops


Yeast:
Safale S-05

Other:
Whirlfloc Tablet

1. Mash grains at 152 for 45 minutes in 1 gallon of water (in muslin bag).

2. Sparge with 1 gallon of water at 170 degrees – then remove grains and add another gallon of water at 170+ degrees and bring to boil.

3. Add 3.3 lbs. of LME and 1 oz. of hops and bring back to boil (60 minute)

4. Add 3.3 lbs. of LME and 1 oz. of hops (15 minute)

5. Add 1 oz. of hops and Whiflfloc (5 minute)

6. Add 1 oz. of hops (1 minute)

7. Cool wort and pour into primary fermenter. Fill primary to 5 gallon mark with cool water.

8. Ferment for 14 days in primary (FG = 1.010 – 1.015).

9. Transfer to secondary fermentation vessel and add 1 oz. of hops.

10. Let clear for 14 – 21 days.

11. Add priming sugar and bottle – leave for 14-21 days at room temperature.

Grain bill looks good, but you don't need the carapils. Maybe add a touch of sugar to ensure the extract hitting 1.011 FG. When I brew via partial mash IPAs, I try to add a minimum of 30% mashing grains so I have at least one-third control over fermentability by mashing those grains lower than usual (147-ish). The extract your using was presumably mashing much higher by the maltster, so by mashing a portion of own grains lower, you will come to a sort of middle ground. I wouldn't worry about body or head retention. IPAs brewed with a majority of extract rarely have issues with either, even with sugar added.

I like the mashing ratio of 1.5 liters water per pound of grain. You're quite close to that. But I would mash for a full 60 minutes. For a shortcut to sparging BIAB, just dip the grain several times in your main kettle volume of 170-ish water. This will rinse the grains and offer a sort of mashout at the same time. Afterward, let the grain bag hang/drip over a bowl and reincorporate those runnings back to the kettle.

For this recipe, I would add 2 lbs. of the LME at 60 and the rest at 5 or 0 minutes. This will prevent excess darkening and offer a boost in hop utilization. You won't have any issues with infection by not boiling extract for a full 15 minutes. I've done this many times.

Whirlfloc barely melts all the way for me when added at 10 minutes. I would add it at 15 minutes.

When cooling, wait a ways for the wort to chill, then whirlpool in your flameout hops with a sanitized spoon. This will create a cone shape of trub in the center of the kettle, which you can siphon around carefully (use a mesh bag around the auto siphon too). Also, hops added to warmish-hot wort offer a different kind of complexity than hops added to boiling wort (kettle boil) or cold wort (dryhop). The cooling process should take 25-30 minutes total, but longer won't hurt.

Be sure to oxygenate your cooled wort very well before pitching the yeast. Then, never add oxygen again. C02 will be your friend after the first day or so.

I would highly recommend a full volume boil with no top off water. If you can manage that, then for the hop schedule, bitter to 20-25 IBUs at boil start. Add a small addition at 30 to bring your IBUs up to par. Then 1.5 oz. or so at 10 minutes. The rest at flameout and dryhop. This will give you 50-55 ish IBUs with smooth bitterness and high aroma. 6 oz. hops total, so add another oz.

Secondary for dryhopping purposes alone is unnecesary. Total primary time, including 1 week of dryhops at the tail end, should take 2.5 - 3.5 weeks for a beer like this IMO. I would use a minimum of 2 to 2.5 oz. dryhops for 5 gallons of IPA. When transferring your beer to the bottling bucket with the appropriate amount of priming sugar, wrap your auto-siphon with a nylon mesh bag to ensure no hop particulates/trub/yeast cake gets into your bottled beer. Good luck!

Thanks. I also noticed that nowhere in my schedule did I pitch the yeast. Obviously, I know to pitch after topping off (if I need to top off). I've never done a full volume boil before.

And is my mash time of 45 minutes long enough?

I have never done a partial mash. I have done extract recipes with grains but never where I was attempting to get fermentable sugars from my grains (steeping at 170 +/- degrees).

3. Add 3.3 lbs. of LME and 1 oz. of hops and bring back to boil (60 minute)

4. Add 3.3 lbs. of LME and 1 oz. of hops (15 minute)

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Why the two separate LME additions? I would add both at the beginning of the boil for two reasons: first, there are some components in extracts that you want to boil off (the debate about DMS in extracts not withstanding, extracts are not fully boiled but are concentrated under reduced pressure) and second, adding 3.3 lbs. of room-temp LME will greatly reduce the temp of your kettle, changing hop utilization and messing with your boil calculations. Other than that, I'd say you have a pretty solid recipe!

Don - I have been reading that it is better to add a portion of the LME to the wort later in the boil to get the hoppy flavor I'm looking for in this sort of IPA. I am planning to research the logic behind the claim (I take nothing at face value) but have not yet done so. You disagree with that approach?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Extract is good to go as is. It was already boiled by the maltster. Any off flavors that may develop later on would be the cause of the yeast (not the extract unless it is very old/stale or of poor quality). That is why I see a benefit in extended fermenting/conditioning time (3-4 weeks vs. 1-2 weeks). It allows the yeast to reabsorb any off flavors they initially released into your beer, which will in turn give you a smoother beer in the end. Another week or two of conditioning will not affect the hop's character or freshness, especially since you will be dryhopping the last week anyway.

With a late extract addition, hop utilization should be better, not worse. A partial boil will affect hop utilization for the worse though; that is why I recommended a full volume boil. If you boil 3.25 gallons down to 2.50 then top off with another 2.50 gallons of plain water, the IBUs are cut in half, and the pleasant character of the late boil hops is dramatically weakened.

I have been reading that it is better to add a portion of the LME to the wort later in the boil to get the hoppy flavor I'm looking for in this sort of IPA

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I've never read anything like that, but I've also never read anything refuting that claim, either. I can't figure why (scientifically) that might be the case unless you were reading about pre-hopped LME. If that were the case, than yes, later additions would be better for hoppiness.

I would assume that the cons of the "cold addition" of the LME late in the boil would outweigh whatever increase in flavor might come of it, but again, that's just an assumption.

Extract is good to go as is. It was already boiled by the maltster.

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It is boiled, for a minimal amount of time and under greatly reduced pressure. This means that it does not get nearly as hot for nearly as long as a full brewing boil.

A partial boil will affect hop utilization for the worse though; that is why I recommended a full volume boil.

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This is true in that the wort will only be able to extract x concentration of hop acids and aromatics over time, so having a lower boil volume will result in fewer total acid/oil extractions. Always shoot for a minimal top-off if you can.

With a late extract addition, hop utilization should be better, not worse.

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Please expand on this; are you saying that the utilization is better than adding at the beginning, or not at all? I'm curious about this as I've never read anything like it (though I've only ever done all-grain, so my time in Extract threads is minimal).

I'll preface this by saying that I've never head Two Hearted, so I'm not sure how aromatic the beer is. With that disclaimer stated, and depending on the level of hop aroma/flavor you prefer, I'd recommend dry hopping with more hops than you're using. I'd say try 2.5+ oz, then adjust up or down from there on your next brew. I don't think you'll regret it. Of course, hops are thirsty, so if you have the fermentor space for it, I'd scale up the recipe to 5.5 gallons if you want to net 5 gallons of beer.

Adding malt extract late in the boil is commonly done, as actually is becoming preferred over boiling the extract the whole time. DMS isn't a concern with extract, and often you don't get a hot break with extract either.

I'd go with at least half the extract at flame out.

I'm having trouble with the hops schedule. 5 ounces of hops? All centennial? At what time?

I'd go with at least half the extract at flame out.

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This I could get behind as it would help to cool the wort way faster, so long as the can was sanitized prior to opening to limit external exposure.
Hops (1 oz. at a time) go in at 60,15,5,1, and then dry hop

Yooper said:

I'm having trouble with the hops schedule. 5 ounces of hops? All centennial? At what time?

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I am a true novice. Do you think the amount, type or timing of my hops is off? What do you suggest. I give the times in the recipe.

Ridire said:

I am a true novice. Do you think the amount, type or timing of my hops is off? What do you suggest. I give the times in the recipe.

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Ask yourself, "what am I going for in this beer?" Do you want it to be balanced? dry? bitter? more hop aroma/flavor characteristics than bitterness? I'd say answer that question first, then build the recipe to suit your target beer.

If you want a simple, tride and true IPA that you'd get at most brew pubs, your recipe fits the bill as is. If you want more bitterness, add more hops to your early boil additions. If you want more aroma, add more hops than you're using to the 0 minute and dry hop additions (you're also going to get some additional perceived bitterness with later hop additions, even though your IBU calculator won't factor for it).

Centennial is a nice hop. It's a great all around American hop that can be used anywhere in the recipe and will do just fine as your only hop (plus you'll have the added advantage of learning the characteristics of Centennial). You'll get citrus and some floral character from it (think a bigger version of Cascade). If you want to add some other characteristics, blend in another hop or two with the character you're looking for (Columbus, Amarillo, Simcoe, Chinook, Summit, etc.) It really depends on what you want to achieve.

Thanks. I just looked on an IBU calculator and think I should up my hops, if anything. I cannot do a full 6 gallon boil with my equipment, so I will be topping off. I see that I lose IBU (as Bob mentioned) by doing this. I gain some back by adding early. I think my schedule, as is, gets me close to my 55-60 IBU with a 3 gallon boil. I am thinking maybe I should add an oz. or so to the end to get more aroma/flavor. Does that sound logical? Playing with the IBU calculator, I see that I could add later and get the desired IBU if I were boiling 5/6 gallons...but that is not an option. Am I losing out on something else by upping my hops and adding some at the end (and more at the dry) to get the aroma?

Ridire said:

Thanks. I just looked on an IBU calculator and think I should up my hops, if anything. I cannot do a full 6 gallon boil with my equipment, so I will be topping off. I see that I lose IBU (as Bob mentioned) by doing this. I gain some back by adding early. I think my schedule, as is, gets me close to my 55-60 IBU with a 3 gallon boil. I am thinking maybe I should add an oz. or so to the end to get more aroma/flavor. Does that sound logical? Playing with the IBU calculator, I see that I could add later and get the desired IBU if I were boiling 5/6 gallons...but that is not an option. Am I losing out on something else by upping my hops and adding some at the end (and more at the dry) to get the aroma?

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You generally want a firm bittering, but still plenty of late hops so you get the "big hops flavor and aroma" so typical in a good IPA.

I think 60/15/5/0 is a fine schedule, along with some dryhopping, assuming that you get IBUs in the 55 area.

The problem I am seeing with the IBU calculators I am finding online is that they are basing their calculations on OG, which I can understand. But what if my fermentables are less at the beginning of the boil than at the end (as if I add half of my LME towards the end of the boil...or even in the middle)? I assume the IBU will be higher for a wort of 1.065 OG where the hops are added early with only enough fermentables to get to 1.040 until the last 10 minutes of the boil, when the late added sugars bring the OG to 1.065.

Am I thinking about this properly?

This is the reason I am going "rogue" instead of following a recipe. I want to learn how to work through these sorts of things instead of just reading on the recipe that it will be 55 IBU and accepting that as fact.

I personally give little weight to IBUs in hoppy beers with 0 minute and cold side hop additions. It is a calculation that is helpful with measuring bitterness in early hop additions, but it doesn't measure how "hoppy" a beer is that is made with large cold side hop additions. I've brewed a 0 IBU IPA (with 12 oz of hops/5 gallons) that had plenty of bitterness and a huge amount of hop character to it (you could smell it across the room).

If I can oversimplify, IBU calculators measure the amount of isomerized alpha acid units in the beer. The equation works well when hops are boiled for a long time (no utilization is given for 0 minute whirlpool additions, even if they're steeping in near boiling wort for 30 minutes). Also, IBUs do not account for other "perceived bitterness" characteristics of hops. Studies have been done with dry hopped beers showing an increase in perceived bitterness with professional taste testers. It's assumed that it has to do with other compounds in the hop.

All of this to say, you could add 10 IBUs to your 60 minute addition, or 10 IBUs to you 5 minute addition (which would require significantly more hops), and the two beers would come out much differently.

Ridire said:

The problem I am seeing with the IBU calculators I am finding online is that they are basing their calculations on OG, which I can understand. But what if my fermentables are less at the beginning of the boil than at the end (as if I add half of my LME towards the end of the boil...or even in the middle)? I assume the IBU will be higher for a wort of 1.065 OG where the hops are added early with only enough fermentables to get to 1.040 until the last 10 minutes of the boil, when the late added sugars bring the OG to 1.065.

Am I thinking about this properly?

This is the reason I am going "rogue" instead of following a recipe. I want to learn how to work through these sorts of things instead of just reading on the recipe that it will be 55 IBU and accepting that as fact.

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It used to be thought that specific gravity of the wort had an impact on hops utilization. It turns out, though, that is incorrect. John Palmer said a couple of years ago that he "got it wrong" in "How To Brew". So, don't pay attention to the wort gravity when figuring IBUs.

The real issue with a partial boil is simply adding water to the end. What I mean is this. Say, you have 65 IBUs in 2.5 gallons of wort after the boil. When you add 2.5 gallons of water (0 IBUs), then your total wort will have 32.5 IBUs in it. So, boil as much as you can for the hops isomerization. If you can boil 4 gallons, with 65 IBU wort, and then top off with 1 gallon that means your IBUs will be increased.

Try to not overthink this too much! Boil as much as you can, but don't sweat it too much. Add the bulk of the extract near or at the end of the boil, and it'll be good.

Yooper said:

It used to be thought that specific gravity of the wort had an impact on hops utilization. It turns out, though, that is incorrect. John Palmer said a couple of years ago that he "got it wrong" in "How To Brew". So, don't pay attention to the wort gravity when figuring IBUs.

The real issue with a partial boil is simply adding water to the end. What I mean is this. Say, you have 65 IBUs in 2.5 gallons of wort after the boil. When you add 2.5 gallons of water (0 IBUs), then your total wort will have 32.5 IBUs in it. So, boil as much as you can for the hops isomerization. If you can boil 4 gallons, with 65 IBU wort, and then top off with 1 gallon that means your IBUs will be increased.

Try to not overthink this too much! Boil as much as you can, but don't sweat it too much. Add the bulk of the extract near or at the end of the boil, and it'll be good.

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Thanks. I understand that I'm overthinking it right now but that is just so I can understand what happened when the beer comes out the way it comes out. I have adjusted to add the second half of LME at or near the end of the boil, and 1 oz. each of the hops at 60/15/5/0 and then 2 oz. for the last week in fermenter. I'll see how it goes. If it's a mess, I'll do something different next time...I just want to know where to look for that something different.

By the way, this will only be my second brew (first is a porter that is still sitting in a bucket in the basement). I want to get to where I'm doing AG by summer, so I want each brew to have a little more complexity than the last. This time the complexity is coming from me developing (or at least tweaking) the recipe instead of buying all pre-measured ingredients and following a paint by numbers recipe with no thought put into "why?".

I won't cook this IPA for another couple of weeks so I can get a head start on bottling, conditioning and emptying some bottles from the porter brew.

Ridire said:

Thanks. I understand that I'm overthinking it right now but that is just so I can understand what happened when the beer comes out the way it comes out. I have adjusted to add the second half of LME at or near the end of the boil, and 1 oz. each of the hops at 60/15/5/0 and then 2 oz. for the last week in fermenter. I'll see how it goes. If it's a mess, I'll do something different next time...I just want to know where to look for that something different.

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It won't be a mess! It's a solid recipe, with solid technique.

Yooper said:

It used to be thought that specific gravity of the wort had an impact on hops utilization. It turns out, though, that is incorrect. John Palmer said a couple of years ago that he "got it wrong" in "How To Brew". So, don't pay attention to the wort gravity when figuring IBUs.

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Yoop, can you please point me to the source of this info?

Be sure to give the fermenter a good soak if you're going from the porter to the IPA in the same bucket. It won't make a gigantic difference, but since you're looking for the "why" of your recipes, it's best to get into a VERY rigid cleaning approach. If you're just in it for the fun and not looking to perfect any recipes you can be a bit more relaxed about things (so long as your sterility doesn't suffer).

As it stands, I think you have the makings of a good, solid recipe. You haven't over thought anything yet, you've just been inquisitive about your approach. This is a good thing and I think you'll reap the rewards for sure. I'd say your next beer after this should be the exact same recipe, only change from Centennial to a different variety you like or are interested in, like Cascade or Fuggles or Amarillo. Then you'll truly appreciate the full range of the hops as you'll be able to distinguish their additions not only from each other but from the grains and yeast as well.