How soon should one advance to all grain brewing?

Hello,

I am new to brewing. I currently have my first batch (BB Russian Imperial Stout) bottled. I just ordered a Northern Brewer's Double IPA martial mash kit today. I am looking forward to starting my second batch. As you can tell, i like big beers. I did taste my first batch while bottling. It tasted pretty good. I am guessing it will improve with age, especially considering that it is a stout.

Anyhow, my question is this... how soon does the average brewer get into all grain brewing. I know there's no standard or anything. It's just that i want what every other brewer wants... to brew the best beer possible.

Is there a big notable difference when going from partial mash to all grain? What kind of expenses am i looking at to convert to all grain? I am figuring that i will probably do a bunch of partial mashes first until i can afford to spend the money on the equipment needed for all grain brewing.

I'd say right away. I saw a big difference between extract and AG. I never did partial mashes.

I did about 10 extract batches before moving to AG. I knew I was going to move that way eventually, so I just added equip slowly. First step - full boil and chiller. Next for me was a propane burner. After that, you're a mash tun and second brew pot (which you probably already have) away from AG.

I did two extract and moved on to all grain.

I did three extract and moved to all grain after small steps:

Partial boil/ice in sink to chill -> Full boil/IC Chiller -> All Grain

Once you're at full boil, all-grain can be done relatively cheaply.

answer, as soon as you feel you are ready! and have the $$$

Cost depends on your wants. These are quick estimates based on prices I know of or have spent. If you go with a aluminum turkey fryer $40, 48 qt. mlt $40 (bulkhead and cooler), chiller $45 and propane burner $50...

$175

If you want stainless pot (like I do) or any other changes it goes up.

disclaimer... I am slightly impaired at the moment

your results may vary....

I did about 15-20 extract/partial mashes before making the jump to AG. What can I say- I'm a slow learner!

Do it now! I've never done an extract or partial mash beer. I went directly to the dark side - did not pass GO - and spent a hell of a lot more than $200!

It's not as hard as it sounds, and you can start out on the cheap to begin with if you want. If you've got anyone around that can walk you through it the first time, it might make things easier.

I would say as soon as you can afford it, do it. If you are brewing beer that tastes good to you then continue until you've gotten the essential's to do AG. I am currently working on going AG. Waiting to finish my malt mill and getting a banjo cooker. I have made several partial mash beers and am satisfied with all of them. But like most homebrewers it's all about improving upon those recipes that you do like. To me, going AG would be another step to making better beer.

I did three extract + steeping grains batches, then 5 partial mashes after building a mash tun. I increased the amount of grain I used each time (largest being 75% grain / 25% extract), figuring it'd be good practice. I've done two all grain batches since, one using decoction.

I did one full extract, two partial mash, and then I went to AG. Don't let the costs scare you, you can do perfectly good AG for alot less money. I got a turkey fryer for about 40, made my MLT for about 30, and I'll be making my wort chiller for about 30 for my next batch. So thats about $100. Since AG is cheaper than extract anyway, and the quality is better, it definitely will pay for itself soon.

thedaler said:

So thats about $100. Since AG is cheaper than extract anyway, and the quality is better, it definitely will pay for itself soon.

Click to expand...

Careful there young padawan. I haven't had a beer pay for itself yet. I started a thread a while back on the AG forum asking guys to reveal how much they've spent. I think I'm in for over $1K. There are a few, mostly beginners I presume, who had only spent $$ on the basics, but there's always something else that you "need". There's still quite a few things on my wish list. Remember, it's a hobby, and guys love spending $$ on their hobbies. You can keep the initial investment low, but don't expect that you won't keep adding to your brewery gadgets.

Hehe, well luckily I am a college student and have very little money, so I'm not able to spend lots of money on the hobby. And anyway, I didnt only mean that AG pays for itself in terms of dollars, but also the amount of quality that improves.

When it comes to cost I find that partial mash is a good in-between. By substituting a good amount of DME in my recipes for grains I cut down the amount it costs me to brew. Yeah, all grain would be cheaper for ingredients but then I'd have to buy the wort chiller and propane burner since I doubt my stove would handle a full boil. Also a bigger pot and I'd have to rig a bigger MLT. Plus with PM you still get some of that fresh grain taste while giving the yeast lots of extract to munch on.

Im in the same boat as you I spent around 100 moving to all grain. I really don't plan on spending any more money on stuff for a while.
--- Poor college kid also.

asap.





:rockin:

I did 2 extract, 2 partial mashes and JUMPED up! It just keeps gettin better...and funner..and ...well you get the idea.

PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!

I was wondering this very question the OP said...I guess it's time to start collecting more gadgets for the next level. I suppose it can't hurt

I did two extract batches, a partial mash and then an all grain.
However with really big beers like Imperial Stouts and Double IPAs all grain can get a little tricky. You will need are large mashtun, long boil times and you will probably have poor efficiencies. An easier idea might be to use 10-12# of grain (an average size AG beer) and add DME to get to your big beers. This will be a partial mash but will run very much like an average AG. Once you get a feel for the process you can up the grain until you are comfortable with the results.
I will be doing a few big beers this summer using 10-12# in my 5gal mashtun and DME to get the desired gravity.
Craig

Since you're asking, I assume that AG is what you want to do. If so, then I say "Nike it" (just do it). Do the reading, do the research, and most importantly(IMHO), do the trial and error thang. If money is an issue, then I say go gorilla. To me, there's nothing more homebrew than homebrew equipment. go to flee markets, swap meets. Go to high school weilding classes and ask the instructor "Hey, you think one of your students can do this?"
Anyway, you asked when you should go to all grain.... I ask, "when do you want to?"

the real ?? is "what are you expecting to get out of homebrewing" you can make GREAT and I do mean GREAT beer from a kit (from B3) but if you are anything like me and want to have total control (weather capibable or not) and are a total "give me more!!! 500 horse power isent enough when I know I can get 580 " type kind of guy then the answer is yesterday if you just want to make GREAT beer and put it all away and not have it consume your entire garage then I would say NEVER
yes I have been drinking
JJ

Do it whenever you want. it's your beer. One thing though, and a lot of guys here might disagree, don't mess around with partial mash. If you're going to go the the time and effort of mashing, sparging, etc, you might as well do it for the whole batch. Just my .02.

You can make mind bogglingly good beer doing extract w/ steeping grains and you can make terrible, undrinkable beer from all grain. It is not neccessarily better.

Do it sooner than later. Keep in mind that it won't end with the switch to AG...the next question you'll ask is: "How soon should I start doing 10-gallon batches?".

And of course...it's a lot more work to bottle 10-gallon batches so: "How soon do I convert to kegging?"...

For most all beers you can make just as good beer from partial mash as from all grain. Here are the steps I would take to make the best beer possible.

1. Keep good records and have John Palmer's How to Brew as nightly reading.
2. Sanitation - Be anal until you know what you can get away with and then return to anal when you screw up.
4. Learn to make starters if you are using liquid yeast.
5. Temp control - Many think this is one of the most important steps to making great beer. I think it should be high on the list.
3. Learn about and use the late extract addition method. You should learn to or get a program to adjust hops with this step.
4. Get at least and 8 Gallon boil pot and a turkey fryer and start doing full boils. You will need to learn to or get a program to adjust hops with this step for sure.
5. Learn and improve your craft.

I recommend each of these steps before jumping into all grain if you goal is to make excellent beer. If your goal is doing this as a hobby and want to fill more time in your day, by all means go all grain. By the time you achieve the ability to do full boils, you are almost all the way there to all grain as far a $ go. I started all grain after my third batch personally and have 26 batchs under my belt. That is because I have a lot of time on my hands and love the process.

I can say without reservation that if I had less time and just wanted to make great beer, I would never go all grain.