Gentle Temp Change for Lager

I brewed a simple American Lager last night with a partial mash boil of 1 1/2 gallons and then dumped it into the fermenter and added 4 gallons of cold water like the recipe said. I then put it in the fridge with air lock and lid and waited for it to get down to my ideal temp of 50 to add the yeast. I brewed at 7:30. At 11:30, it was still not cooled to 50. It was more like 65. I decided that since I had to get up early for work (5:00 AM), I pitched the lager yeast when it was at 65. The fridge that it sat in is at 40, so that is what the temp will get down to.

My question is, Did I ruin my beer by exposing the yeast to 65? I checked this morning after about 6 hours from when I pitched the yeast and haven't seen any activity in the fermentation lock. I have brew 2 batches of ales before, and they have always started fermenting within 24 hours. Any thoughts?

you didnt ruin your beer. thats the good news. typically when making a lager, you want to pitch your yeast at room temperature and let it ferment for 24 hours, then begin lagering your temperature. remember not to lager down more than 2 degrees per day. your primary should reach 55 degrees for 14 days, then rack it to a secondary and allow a 24 hour diacetyl rest at room temperature, then re-lager from room temperature down to 48 degrees at the rate of 2 degrees per day. once 48 degrees is reached, another 21 days in the secondary. then bottle for 14 days at room temperature, then throw them in the fridge and bring it down to 33 degrees immediately and hold for 14 days. happy brewing!!!

brewmasterpodunkarizona said:

you didnt ruin your beer. thats the good news. typically when making a lager, you want to pitch your yeast at room temperature and let it ferment for 24 hours, then begin lagering your temperature. remember not to lager down more than 2 degrees per day.

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Are you saying to pitch at room temp, then drop the temp 2f per day until it hits fermentation temps. From 65f to 50f would take 7 days. This doesn't make sense, please explain.

that is exactly how to do it. and yes it would take 7 days. you dont want to shock your yeast because fermentation may take even longer or possibly become stuck. you should never alter fermentation temps more than 2 degrees per day.

brewmasterpodunkarizona said:

that is exactly how to do it. and yes it would take 7 days. you dont want to shock your yeast because fermentation may take even longer or possibly become stuck. you should never alter fermentation temps more than 2 degrees per day.

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This is news to me, can you give me your information source? I just did a lager and I cold pitched a huge starter, all went well.

in speaking to several other brewers and also the master brewer at the local, thats what ive been told. it does make sense that yeast will go dormant if you drop its ambient temp too quickly, thats why you refrigerate it when you cultivate it. i dont have a source, but thats what ive been doing with my lagers and it works, just takes awhile, but then again, lagers do take awhile. they come out poooyfecto every time though.

Ok, i've just never heard of taking a week to drop your fermentation temps, it sounds strange at best.

Should I take my primary out of the fridge and let ferment for a day, then stick it back in?

i would say that you should take it out of the fridge until this time tomorrow just to get your fermentation started. usually it takes about 24 hours to get started, then put it in the fridge and make sure to drop the temp no more than 2 degrees per day. dont forget to start your fridge at room temp when you put your primary in it. this might be difficult if your fridge is being used for other things than beer.

Hmm, well, my fridge was at 40, and the wort has probably cooled down to about 50 or 40 by now. If you think that I should take it out, I will for tonight. I work about 50 miles away from my house, so I will let it out tonight overnight and see if it has started fermentation yet.

A drop in 2°F per day to prevent shocking lager yeast is very conservative. That's about 1°C. Most of the texts (etc.) I've read state 3-5°F per day is fine. Some say more is fine. I do 5°F and never had a problem.

HOWEVER, some lager brewers prefer cold crashing from primary temps to lagering temps (including Kaiser). I'm not sure of the reasoning, but I can assume for clarity, etc. and assumes no negative effects on beer conditioning. For now, I'll continue to reduce my lagers at 5°F per day because of my understanding of what exactly yeast do during lagering and the desire to keep them in suspension for as long as possible. But IIRC, even Noonan recommends cold crashing to lagering temps under certain circumstances. I'm open to other options if it seems scientifically reasonable.

For the OP, what you did is OK. Not ideal, but OK. Pitching lager yeast at 65°F may result in some extra undesired flavors in your lager, but they will be minimal and possibly below taste threshold. More diacetyl will be produced, but that can be reduced to below-taste-threshold with a diacetyl rest. It's best to pitch lager yeast at ~50°F. It's even better to pitch the yeast at 45°F and let everything warm up to 50°F. Pitching lager yeasts warm and allowing them to begin fermentation warm will produce esters, diacetyl, phenols, fusel alcohols, etc. Sometimes they're off-putting in the final beer, sometimes they're not. It's best not to risk it in the first place.

40°F is too low for primary fermentation temps for a lager. Even 45°F is pushing it but definitely do-able. Try to get it stable at 50°F. Then, about 3/4 the way through primary fermentation (krausen beginning to fall) get it to 60-65°F for a diacetyl rest for a day or two. Then rack to secondary, reduce by ~5°F per day, and lager for ~7 days for every 2°Plato (8 gravity points).

If you bottle, I'd recommend against lagering in the bottle. Bulk conditioning is better for the beer and unexpected carbonation problems can result.

Thanks for the Reply. I will monitor it tonight and if it starts to ferment, I will keep it in the fridge at 50 degrees. Hopefully that will be good for it.

Hmm, I took out of the fridge, no fermentation yet at 24 hours, should I worry?

Not until 72 hours.

Would stiring to help areate hurt or be good at this point?

I'd leave it alone. Not seeing signs of fermentation doesn't mean the yeast aren't yet working. Just try to keep it at 50°F and it should eventually take off. If you didn't make a yeast starter or didn't make a very big yeast starter, the lag time will be longer, but it should still eventually take off.

Hypothetically, if I were an idiot and Stired it this morning, that bad?

Morkin said:

Hypothetically, if I were an idiot and Stired it this morning, that bad?

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You're NOT an idiot. Don't say that.

It should be fine as long as you sanitized your stirring implement.

OK, good, because I totally did that this morning. I have done the #1 thing not to do in home-brewing. I worried. I should do as the "complete joy of home-brewing" says and RELAX, not worry, and have a home-brew.

Approaching 72 hours today. Still no activity in air lock. I am using a plastic fermenter, should I open the top of the bucket and look to see if I have any krausen, or the start of krausen?

I presume you get a good seal on your bucket lid? If so, that's a tough one. Here's what I would do... if you can today, get some dry lager yeast... if you're not getting airlock activity by this evening, open the lid and check. If there are no signs of fermentation, pitch the [hydrated] lager yeast. Be careful of contamination!

Before I do that, should I take a hydrometer test? There is a slight chance that I just missed the air lock activity. I keep reading on the forums that the air lock is not a sign that fermentation took place. I will take hydrometer reading tonight, and if it hasn't changed I guess I will get some lager yeast tomorrow. My lhbs is about 90 miles away, so it a bit of a pain to go there. O well.

I started at 1.031, if my gravity has gone down, Fermentation took place right? I"m starting to wonder why I even bothered with a lager when my first two ales came out perfectly!

This early, the hydrometer may not tell you much. Your eyes are a better tool. If you see a big tub full of beer colored liquid, or a few islands of bubbles, pitch the yeast. If there is a fairly consistent layer of foam on the top then you're fine.

That is what stinks about a plastic fermenter, you cannot see in it without opening the lid. I'm wondering (presuming there is no foam) what I did wrong. I'm wondering if the yeast sent from Midwest Brewing to my House in Missouri was bad, or if I shocked the yeast..... Is the beer sitting the the fermenter for 5 days not doing anything bad for it? Will I even salvage anything if I do add more yeast?

If fermentation has not started yet, contamination risk is high. That's why I would be very conservative about opening that lid and messing with it. I believe the logic behind the 72 hour window is due to contamination risk and that, if fermentation hasn't started at that point, the excess yeast growth (assuming low pitch rate or yeast viability causing excessive lag time) will cause too much flavor-active compounds to be formed.

None of this is black and white though. But checking it constantly isn't going to make it ferment. If you can't get more yeast, then all you can really do is wait and hope.

Lagers are a bit more involved than ales, particularly in time and temperature control. But they can be very rewarding and once you get your procedures down (and understanding why you're doing them), not much more trouble.