Consistent off flavor or infection?

Hello I know there are other threads on this, but they don't seem to have my flavor issue. My past five or so batches have had an off flavor to them, more pronounced in darker beers like porters and stouts, but it will show up in my ipas. It doesn't make the beer undrinkable (to me it is). I can find anything in Palmer's book or online that has the flavor to it. It is almost a sweet anapestic taste, but not really like bandaids/medicinal or anything. I have a horrible sense of taste so my description is the best I can do.

I took it to my brew club and had some more experienced drinkers try it and one is a certified judge and couldn't tell me what it is. They said try lowering my mash temp to around the mid 40's which doesn't sound right because I want my beers dryer anyways

I am all-grain brewing, bottling. I feel like my sanitation is good and this has happened with multiple different batches and exists in every bottle.

I pitch below 70 degrees and have temp control with a freezer and fermwrap. My beers are never above 69 degrees.

I have used US-05, Nottingham, WLP 001, 002 and make appropriate sized starters.

I never open my carboys to check gravity and leave them usually for 3 weeks and then bottle.

I clean the spigot on the bottling bucket and sanitize it.

This has occurred with plastic carboys and glass. With new hose and old.

My autosiphon gets sanitized as well as the bottling wand.

My method for cleaning the bottles is to rinse them out immediately after drinking. I then store them until use and then wash them with a bottle washer then soak in star san.

It is getting to the point where I don't know what is wrong with my methods or if it is an infection. I am willing to ship some of my beers if anyone can help out or if anyone is near Glenwood Springs CO can help.

Any ideas?

I can answer any questions that will help. At this point I don't want to brew because it seems like it will just be a waste of time and money.

Thanks

Are you using tap water? Chloramine will give an off-flavor sort of like what you are describing, and if you are using tap water in all your batches that would be my first guess without asking for more info. Maybe try a batch with distilled or RO water to see if that impacts the flavor.

boydsbitchinbrews said:

Are you using tap water? Chloramine will give an off-flavor sort of like what you are describing, and if you are using tap water in all your batches that would be my first guess without asking for more info. Maybe try a batch with distilled or RO water to see if that impacts the flavor.

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This is exactly what I was thinking. If you are using tap water, grab yourself a $2 baggie of campden tablets, which will remove chlorine and chloramines from several hundred gallons of water. I was amazed at how much better by beers tasted when I started using campden.

+1 on Boyds response.

Maybe your water is the problem if you have potentially eliminated everything else as the possible problem.

I do use tap water, but I also use campden tablets. I use it in my mash and sparge water. Even using campden tablets could water still be the issue?

If I buy a water filter will that solve the issue? They are about as expensive as 4 batches worth of bottled water.

Yourrealdad said:

Even using campden tablets could water still be the issue?

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For your next batch go buy your water instead of taking it from the tap - easy test to see if the water is the issue before buying a good filter.

I second the recommendation to use bottled water for your next batch.

Other considerations:
How are you chilling your wort? If you're using a plate chiller and/or any pumps, I would disassemble those and clean thoroughly. Your bottling procedure sounds fine. Whatever is contaminating your beer must be contact with the entire volume. If changing your water doesn't solve the issue, I would suggest replacing all plastic equipment. You may also want to try an alternative sanitizer, just in case something is weird with your Starsan.

While you are not tasting the standard band-aid flavor, the off-flavor is most likely the result of a bacterial infection, although there are other possible causing depending on the off-flavor. There are many strains of bacterial that wil cause a wide range of off-flavors. Can you attempt to describe the flavor again? I don't know what anapestic is.

i think maybe "anipestic" = "antiseptic", a medicinal taste???

i had a batch that tasted antiseptic. had a few other brewers taste it and the overwhelming opinion was Star San. i know what Palmer says - "Unlike other no-rinse sanitizers, Star San will not contribute off-flavors at higher than recommended concentrations." but facts are facts. it tasted like Star San. now i use paracetic acid.

+1 to water comments.

As an aside, you may want to lower your ferm temps. Nottingham is notoriously fruity anywhere above the low 60's. The other yeast while more forgiving will benefit from temps in the low to mid 60's.

I use an immersion chiller and usually get my wort chilled down to 70 degrees in under 10 minutes.

Sorry I meant antiseptic. But it doesn't really taste like that i just cant put it into words, but the flavor is also in the aroma of the beer.

I actually just had a 60min clone I made and it actually tasted ok.

Fermentation temps have just been off of Jamil's recipe book usually around 67-68 degrees with it maybe getting up to 69 while the yeast are going crazy and the freezer needs to catch up.

This has also been with different batches of star san.

Next batch I will get bottled water. If that does solve it will a water filter do the trick?

Thanks again

I can't speak from experience about the water filter, but my inclination is that it should work. If it is an activated carbon filter, it should be able to remove chlorine and chloramine.

Actually... just stumbled across this thread after a quick search on the Google machine: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/f...diego-tap-water-no-chloramine-removal-324096/

It says that chloramine takes longer contact time with the carbon to be removed. Not sure where to point you from there, but carbon filtering will remove chloramine if given enough contact time (see post #3).

Definitely steer away from the tap water. I've done this with Campden tablets as well and still had many off-flavors.

I now use a Carbon filter and Campden tablets. There's still a slightly noticeable flavor that comes from using this water that you wouldn't get from using bottled water.

I'm agreeing with the other posters to try using tap water on your next brew.

Yourrealdad said:

Next batch I will get bottled water. If that does solve it will a water filter do the trick?

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In my opinion, no. If bottled water does not solve the issue, then we have basically ruled out water from the equation. At that point I would look to your equipment. If it were me, I would replace all the plastic components on the cold side of your brew house, tubing, siphons, spigots, seals, buckets, etc.

Pie_Man said:

In my opinion, no. If bottled water does not solve the issue, then we have basically ruled out water from the equation. At that point I would look to your equipment. If it were me, I would replace all the plastic components on the cold side of your brew house, tubing, siphons, spigots, seals, buckets, etc.

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But I asked if it (bottled water) DOES solve the problem then can I use a filter instead of buying bottle water?

Yourrealdad said:

But I asked if it (bottled water) DOES solve the problem then can I use a filter instead of buying bottle water?

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Well, maybe!

Instead of just "bottled water", get RO water (reverse osmosis) from the "water machine" at a grocery store or a place like Wal-Mart, not spring water.

If you can't get RO water, get distilled water.

Add 1 teaspoon of calcium chloride per 5 gallons of water to your water and stir it up to dissolve it. Use that for all of your brew water.

If that fixes the issue, then you know it's your water.

One thing I'd do is to get a water report from Ward Labs. They just recently raised their prices to $26.50 for the report you need, but it'd be the only way to really know if your water is able to be used "as is" with a campden tablet, or if you need to do what I do and use RO water. For most beers, I need to dilute my tap water with RO water, except for one or two, due to the bicarbonate level in my water.

PH is very important in mashing, but I don't think the strips are terribly accurate. There is one brand that may be fairly accurate, and if you really want to fix any off flavors or issues, you could buy those pH strips and check your mash pH as well.

Yourrealdad said:

But I asked if it (bottled water) DOES solve the problem then can I use a filter instead of buying bottle water?

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I get 80% removal of chlorine with my water filter. Then i let it sit over night. Generally you can remove chlorine by aerating over night as well, it pretty volatile. The problem is that is chloramine is your issue a filter will not take care of it. I do still toss in a 1/4 tab of camden in my total volume.

EDIT: 80% came from a pre and post total Cl reading using a Hach meter

You should try contacting your drinking water utility or company and get the latest analysis. there may not be any chloramine to worry about.

Reconstituting your brewing water from RO as Yooper suggests will always work. I have never done it for brewing but have for culturing organisms.

Yourrealdad said:

But I asked if it (bottled water) DOES solve the problem then can I use a filter instead of buying bottle water?

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My bad.

I'm not an expert on water filtration. Presuming you can remove whatever is causing the off flavor, I would guess chlorine, then yes. Your water report lists chlorine, but you may want to call your water dept and verify they use chlorine versus chloromine, which I understand is more difficult to remove.

So I am assuming my brew club guys in the same city are using the same water and no one has ever mentioned having to not use tap water. I will still try to narrow it down, but should I expect it to be more of a equipment issue?
I had a buddy who lived down the street from me and I don't remember this flavor in his brews, but I also don't know what he was using for water.

Thanks for all the replies

Yourrealdad said:

I will still try to narrow it down, but should I expect it to be more of a equipment issue?

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That's certainly a possibility. As mentioned earlier, I'd pay special attention to your plastic components and probably replace most of them.

I for one would rule out Glenwood Springs water. I've been there drank the water and is much better than the swill I have to work with here. I don't know what else to say. I'm kinda a newb. I might have missed if you use a fermenting chamber or what you use to control temps but, I had similar off flavours when I was fermenting to hot like 75-78(while fermenting good) with us-05 and wyeast american ale since then I moved my fermenters downstairs. now I stay about 69-72 and I have lost those off flavors

I have a fermentation chamber try to keep these ales around 68. Absolute highest they get according to my Ranco which is taped to the carboy and insulated with a sock is 70. Usually they creep up to 69 and the frezzer kicks it back down quick.

sounds like you have a fun game of isolate the variables ahead of you.