?'s About Steeping Specialty Grains

How much water do you normally steep with?

What effect does less or more water have on the extraction from the specialty grains?

I've been using 4 Gal because i have a very tall floating thermometer. I get the idea people frequently use a lot less.

I steeped with the amount of water I was using for the hops and extract boil - which for me was about 3.5 gallons. The closer you can come to a full boil (not having to top off with extra water) the better.

Glad I found this thread. Not meaning to hijack the thread but I was curious about this as well.

Pappers_ said:

I steeped with the amount of water I was using for the hops and extract boil - which for me was about 3.5 gallons. The closer you can come to a full boil (not having to top off with extra water) the better.

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Were you limited to 3.5 due to kettle size? I can boil 5 gal if i want/need to. Maybe I should use more?

I steep my specialty grains in one gallon of water in a separate pot while the rest of my brew water (4 gallons) heats to boiling in the brew kettle. I brew near full volumes, but not quite - due to the size of my brew kettle

I have read in Brew Your Own and other sources that steeping grains in this smaller quantity of water can result in better beer and reduces the chance of ending up with a grain tea that is too astringent or cloudy. Many times no reason is given other than,"you can brew better beers." Lots of the recipes call for steeping in as little as two quarts.

I am not sure of the science or relevence of all this, but the way I do it allows me to heat up my total volume of water much quicker and get to brewing sooner. I will continue to brew this way if only for that reason.

Pez.

Pezman1 said:

I steep my specialty grains in one gallon of water in a separate pot while the rest of my brew water (4 gallons) heats to boiling in the brew kettle. I brew near full volumes, but not quite - due to the size of my brew kettle

I have read in Brew Your Own and other sources that steeping grains in this smaller quantity of water can result in better beer and reduces the chance of ending up with a grain tea that is too astringent or cloudy. Many times no reason is given other than,"you can brew better beers." Lots of the recipes call for steeping in as little as two quarts.

I am not sure of the science or relevence of all this, but the way I do it allows me to heat up my total volume of water much quicker and get to brewing sooner. I will continue to brew this way if only for that reason.

Pez.

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You're on the right track Pez. PH is an issue whether you do a full mash, partial mash or steep. If your brew water is high PH and you use 5 gallons to steep 1 lb of grain the grain can't lower (buffer) the PH to an acceptable level of ~5.2. A high PH will extract tannins from the grain. Tannins will make your beer astringent. ~1 gallon of water for 1 lb. of grain is more acceptable. Cheers!!!

hamiltont said:

You're on the right track Pez. PH is an issue whether you do a full mash, partial mash or steep. If your brew water is high PH and you use 5 gallons to steep 1 lb of grain the grain can't lower (buffer) the PH to an acceptable level of ~5.2. A high PH will extract tannins from the grain. Tannins will make your beer astringent. ~1 gallon of water for 1 lb. of grain is more acceptable. Cheers!!!

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Very interesting! Thank you. Pez.

Yes I agree with Pez, very interesting will remember that for my first brew.

It really doesn't matter. You really are just washing the sugars that are on the grain off, grabbing color out of it, and flavor. The starch conversion has already happened at the maltster. I see no difference in doing a 1 gallon vs a 5 gallon steep.

-bn

I steep my grains in the boil kettle with around 2.5 or 3 gallons of water and pull them out at around 170 degrees. When the water boils I take the boil kettle off the flame and mix in the extract. I then put the pot back on the flame and bring to a boil them add hops, etc.

I tend to not use extra pots since I do not like doing dishes.

BeernuT100 said:

It really doesn't matter. You really are just washing the sugars that are on the grain off, grabbing color out of it, and flavor. The starch conversion has already happened at the maltster. I see no difference in doing a 1 gallon vs a 5 gallon steep.

-bn

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The difference is tannin extraction from the husks if your steeping pH is too alkaline.

I agree with pezman.
I have always heard "steep small,boil big"

I have 1 15gal pot for a 5gal batch i have to start out with about 8 gallons because its so wide i get a ton of burn off durring the boil so i steep with 8 gallons and have been using about 1-1.5#s of specialty grains.. I also steep no higher than 155 degrees

John Palmer recommends steeping in less than 1 gallon per lb. of grain, but doesn't explain why. Pezman's explanation makes sense.

I just steep just so a little water is above my grains. From what ive read its 2 quarts per pound of grain. I wouldnt doubt i just use less than half a gallon when i steep a pound of grains. I agree with the ph thing if theres too much water and ph then its going to imbalance it, unless you use distilled water.Since i started mashing base grains to get conversion along with specialty grains i use spring water with this, probalbly would help to use gypsum doing it this way,i hope, but havent tried it yet.my gravity comes out good and my efficency is like 90% also.

I usually steep the specialty grains in the same amount of water I will use for the boil. My boil kettle can hold about 4-4.5 gallons, but I usually boil with about 3.5 gallons to prevent boil-over. I haven't gotten too worried about pH yet...that may happen in the future if I run into some brewing failures. So far, so good!

glenn514

We've always used the "Pez method" as well - steep in a separate gallon of water while we're bringing the main kettle up to temp. If you're using a non-induction stovetop, trying to go full boil on 5 gallons will take you forever, so there's a practical side to doing it that way as well.

I do 3-4 gallon boils. I've always steeped in around 2-3 gallons and then heat another gallon to temp in another pot. After steeping is done I put the bag in a strainer over the large pot and pout the extra gallon over the grain. Then boil away. Is this overkill or am I pulling out extra tannins this way?

cappy said:

I do 3-4 gallon boils. I've always steeped in around 2-3 gallons and then heat another gallon to temp in another pot. After steeping is done I put the bag in a strainer over the large pot and pout the extra gallon over the grain. Then boil away. Is this overkill or am I pulling out extra tannins this way?

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Sounds fine to me as long as the gallon is <170F when you pour it over the grains. Cheers!!!

hamiltont said:

You're on the right track Pez. PH is an issue whether you do a full mash, partial mash or steep. If your brew water is high PH and you use 5 gallons to steep 1 lb of grain the grain can't lower (buffer) the PH to an acceptable level of ~5.2. A high PH will extract tannins from the grain. Tannins will make your beer astringent. ~1 gallon of water for 1 lb. of grain is more acceptable. Cheers!!!

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so, if I read this correctly then the rule "steep small. boil big." is really only a factor if your water has high levels of PH. I always purchase spring water for my beers. Is it safe to steep in 5 gallons, or should I still be using a smaller amount?

What's the PH of the Spring Water? I'd steep small, as you say, just to be on the safe side. Unless you're testing your water PH & know it's within range you really don't know. Cheers!!!

hamiltont said:

What's the PH of the Spring Water? I'd steep small, as you say, just to be on the safe side. Unless you're testing your water PH & know it's within range you really don't know. Cheers!!!

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I guess I assumed store bought Spring water would be within a specific range but maybe that is not the case. I think I'll get some of those PH testing strips and check next time. I guess my personal preference would be to steep in the full 5 gallons if I can but if it means a lower quality beer I'll take the extra steps.

I guess maybe a better question is what would the ph of the water need to be in order to not extract any tannins from the grains. A neutral 7?

So I just noticed that the bottled water I purchase for brewing has a phone number to call for water quality information on it. I called the number and they are going to send me a water report. I'm interested to see what it says.

de5m0mike said:

I guess maybe a better question is what would the ph of the water need to be in order to not extract any tannins from the grains. A neutral 7?

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It depends on the quantity and acidity of the grains you're steeping. Generally speaking the darker the grain the more acidic it is. If your beer is not showing tannin extraction (astringency) from a full volume steep then roll with it... Cheers!!!

de5m0mike said:

I guess I assumed store bought Spring water would be within a specific range but maybe that is not the case. I think I'll get some of those PH testing strips and check next time. I guess my personal preference would be to steep in the full 5 gallons if I can but if it means a lower quality beer I'll take the extra steps.

I guess maybe a better question is what would the ph of the water need to be in order to not extract any tannins from the grains. A neutral 7?

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Tannins aren't so much a ph issue as a temperature issue. the rule I've heard is never have your grains in water over 170 F.
As I understand it there are two types of extract hybrid recipes. Specialty grain steeping, and partial mash. The difference is whether you mash the grains for an hour or just steep them as the water temp rises for the boil.


Partial mash recipes usually have a specify time and temp to keep your grains at, 152 F for 1 hr is an example.
From previous comments when mashing you actually want the ph to drop into the 5's for proper mash which is why it was recommended to not mash with 5 gallons of water, as excess water may/will buffer the ph from
dropping enough.

griffonage said:

Tannins arent so much a ph issue as a temperature issue. .

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Not true- it's actually exactly the opposite. It's not so much a temperature issue as a pH issue. You can do a decoction and actually boil the grains without pulling excess tannins. Tannin extraction is largely a function of pH.

griffonage said:

As I understand it there are two types of extract hybrid recipies. Specialty grain steeping, and partial mash. The difference is whether you mash the grains for an hour or just steep them as the water temp rises for the boil.


Partial mash recipies usually have a specify time and temp to keep your grains at, 152 F for 1 hr is an example.
From previous comments when mashing you actually want the ph to drop into the 5's for proper mash which is why it was recommended to not mash with 5 gallons of water, as excess water may/will buffer the ph fro
Droping enough.

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Correct- that's why I always did my steeping grains and partial mashes exactly the same. No harm will come with using 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain, no matter which grains are used so why not always do that? Then you don't even have to overthink it.

Yooper said:

Not true- it's actually exactly the opposite. It's not so much a temperature issue as a pH issue. You can do a decoction and actually boil the grains without pulling excess tannins. Tannin extraction is largely a function of pH.

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According to Palmer we're both right & wrong From his book

The analogy to a tea bag is a good one in that if the grain is left in for too long (hours), astringent tannin compounds (a.k.a. phenols) can be extracted from the grain husks. The compounds give the wort a dry puckering taste, much like a black tea that has been left to steep too long. The extraction of tannins is especially prevalent if the water is too hot - above 170°F. Previous practices regarding the use of specialty grains had the brewer putting the grain in the pot and bringing it to a boil before removal. That method often resulted in tannin extraction.

Water chemistry also plays a role in tannin extraction. Steeping the heavily roasted malts in very soft water will produce conditions that are too acidic and harsh flavors will result. Likewise, steeping the lightest crystal malts in hard water could produce conditions that are too alkaline and tannin extraction would be a problem again. In this case, the terms Hard and Soft Water are being used to indicate a high (>200 ppm) or low(<50 ppm) level of carbonates and the degree of alkalinity of the brewing water.

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I appreciate the 1.5 quart guide. I'll be using it as my rule of thumb.

Now I need to get a handle on my water situation. My local water is extremely soft.

The kit I used from a local brewery used 2#s specialty grains steeped in 2 gallons of water. My kit said to put them in the water in a muslin bag turn on heat and when water reaches 170 degrees take them out.

Joedub said:

The kit I used from a local brewery used 2#s specialty grains steeped in 2 gallons of water. My kit said to put them in the water in a muslin bag turn on heat and when water reaches 170 degrees take them out.

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That's the non-mash method. Those grains primarily are for color, with touches of aroma and flavor. A minimal amount of sugar is extracted or converted from starch.

Maybe it's just me but when I first started using extract kits, I followed the directions to the "T". Most of them said to bring 2-2.5 Gallons to 150 and hold the grains for 30 minutes then bring the temp up to 170 and discard the grains. Since I have a 10 gallon boil kettle, I have started using 6.5 gallons of water and throw the grains in and bring the temp up to 150-155 and hold for 30 minutes. After the 30 minutes I bring the temp up to 170 and discard the grains, start the boil. Since "moving" to this method I have to say that the final product is better than the smaller amounts of water. Like I said, it may just be me but I have consistently made better beer with no tannin extraction or other ill effects with the full volume of water right off the bat. If you have a large enough pot to handle the capacity, I would try it and I honestly think you would be happy with it.

griffonage said:

That's the non-mash method. Those grains primarily are for color, with touches of aroma and flavor. A minimal amount of sugar is extracted or converted from starch.

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So even though the grains are crushed you aren't getting the full ammount of sugars out of them?

Joedub said:

So even though the grains are crushed you aren't getting the full ammount of sugars out of them?

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Correct.

Mashing takes time, the different enzymatic starch break downs happen at different temperatures. You can read more about the process in palmers book which is available online for free. The section on "Your first all grain beer", the sections on mash will explain what happens while mashing and how sugars are extracted or broken down from starches.

http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html