Playing w/ Grains

Hey Guys,

Been extract brewing for a while now and have only used crystal malts. I'm now looking to branch out and try new grains, here's what I have:

Crystal 10 and 20
Carapils
Rahr pale ale malt

Was looking to mix the pale malt with some crystal malt (8oz. each) for an IPA/APA type of brew... Is that doable for an extract brewer like myself or should I be looking to partial mash?

Thanks!

The pale ale malt will need to be mashed, so yeah, you're looking at having to do a partial mash.

LLBeanJ said:

The pale ale malt will need to be mashed, so yeah, you're looking at having to do a partial mash.

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But a partial mash is so easy there isn't any need to shy away from it. The difference between steeping your Crystal malt and partial mash with the pale ale malt is a tighter control of the temperature. You need to keep the temperature between 148 and 158 for the partial mash whereas you could have a much greater spread of temperature for steeping. Once you have done a partial mash you will realize how easy it is. Then you do a partial mash with more pale malt and less extract. It's still a partial mash since you do add extract. Then you try with more pale malt and less extract and keep this process up until you have only added a teaspoon of extract. It's still a partial mash because part of the sugars come from extract, right? The next time you just forget the extract and you have become an all grain brewer. A pretty slippery slope, agreed?

Also remember that a partial mash needs 1.25-1.5 quarts of water per pound of grains at the mentioned temps. You have to hold that temp for 1 hour to mash the grains. I like the dunk sparge myself. Dunk the grain bag (if you're doing biab) in a kettle of 170F water ( I use 1.5 gallons). Stir to release more goodness for 5-10 minutes. Then pull grain bag & add to brew kettle.

Very, very cool. Couple questions on the partial process then...

8oz pale malt and 8 crystal will work?
Once my hour mash is up I add water to make it a full wort boil?
Does the added water temp matter?
When I brew extract I add 6-9lbs of lme/dme, should I cut down on this quantity?

Super excited to give this a whack, thanks guys!

Nickbones14 said:

Very, very cool. Couple questions on the partial process then...

8oz pale malt and 8 crystal will work?
Once my hour mash is up I add water to make it a full wort boil?
Does the added water temp matter?
When I brew extract I add 6-9lbs of lme/dme, should I cut down on this quantity?

Super excited to give this a whack, thanks guys!

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I wouldn't bother with 8 ounces of pale malt. That's so little as to not be worth the hassle.

You could do it with a pound or two, if you want to, or even more if you have a big enough grain bag.

It is easier to maintain temps with more volume.

Use about 1.3 quarts water per pound of grain.

Use a grain bag. I use 5 gallon paint straining bags from lowes or home-depot.

I don't know how big a pot you have, but if you can boil 2 gallons, start off with 4 lbs.

For 4 lbs heat 5 quarts of water to about 162 F. Remove from heat, put grain bag in water (line the pot), then add the crushed grain. Stir, measure temp, and cover. Temp will be about 150 F. 148 - 152 is good. Lower temps improve fermentability. Hold at temp for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally. 20 minutes is all you really need with today's grains. Longer will not hurt.

While that is mashing, bring a gallon of water to about 170 F in a separate pot.

Remove bag with grains from first pot and let drain for a few minutes, then place the bag with the grains in the second one with water at 170 F. Stir and steep for about 10 minutes. Remove bag and let drain for as long as you like.

Collect all the liquid in a single pot, add water to normal boil level and boil as normal. You can add the extract too, but you will make better beer if you leave it to add at the end.

The paint bags can be rinsed, dried and reused.

Good luck.

You only mash for 20-30 minutes? That's fine for steeping, but I never mash for less than 1 hour. Sometimes longer to get good conversion, as with pilsner malts.

unionrdr said:

You only mash for 20-30 minutes? That's fine for steeping, but I never mash for less than 1 hour. Sometimes longer to get good conversion, as with pilsner malts.

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Have you ever tried milling grains fine and then mashing for less than an hour? The iodine test that I used showed conversion in less than 3 minutes. A 20 minute mash might be overkill.

If you partial you may as well step up and go AG. If you are mashing anyway, may as well make it the whole thing.

RM-MN said:

Have you ever tried milling grains fine and then mashing for less than an hour? The iodine test that I used showed conversion in less than 3 minutes. A 20 minute mash might be overkill.

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Before I got my Barley crusher grain mill, I used a small, old food processor. It gave a lot of floury stuff that made more of a mess than it was worth. I have my grain mill set@ the factory .039" & it works great. Combined with the dunk sparge, my OG's are way up.

unionrdr said:

You only mash for 20-30 minutes? That's fine for steeping, but I never mash for less than 1 hour. Sometimes longer to get good conversion, as with pilsner malts.

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It usually ends up longer, but I get full conversion and 80% mash efficiency with a 20 minute mash. Try it, you could end up saving some time.