Is this an ale thing?

I have brewed several ales from kits & kilos to extract kits, all have been good but not excellent, at least to me. I have taken plenty of time to ferment & condition, have used the best ingredients available but the problem is they are too sweet for my taste. I have used Morebeer kits and TrueBrew kits and others but the sweet after taste is not to my liking. Do I need to look into brewing another type of beer, any help appreciated.

I know, this is a stupid question but I have no where else to turn to so if you need any further input please just ask and I will supply any answers.

thank you.

I would guess that it has to do with boil size. A "sweet" finish indicates that the beer is underbittered. That often means that someone is doing a partial boil (boiling a smaller batch of wort and topping up with water). That really can change the balance of the beer, because the bittering hops aren't boiling in the full volume of wort.

Is that a possibility here? If you can do a full boil, or boil as much as possible, at least 4-5 gallons of wort, that should really help.

Also, adding the bulk of the extract at the end of the boil, instead of all of it in the beginning, really helps make a beer better without that 'sweet cooked extract' type of taste.

It sounds like you are having attenuation problems, do you enjoy any commercial ales? I don't brew extract & have not had many extract beers, but you may be referring to extract twang, that can be caused by less fermentable, usually older extract.

I see you are in OKC, have you been over to the brew shop, or Learn to Brew yet for supplies?
Cheers

Yooper could defiantly, be right about the under bittered too I didn't even think about that...

That is probably the answer I have been looking for. I do not have a pot large enough for a 5 gallon boil, so Santa knows what I need now. Yes, the adding of the bulk of extract at the end is something I have recently read about, that will happen next time.

Thank you so much.

Morebeer has pretty good kits, but can you tell us which ones you've done? Maybe it's the recipe of the kit, or the yeast strain you used, that is unsatisfactory. The kit & Kilo and Truebrew just aren't very good kits, so that's why those aren't worth critiquing- but the morebeer kits, with the extract, hops, grain, and yeast, do tend to be quality kits and those should have come out much better.

I started using Beersmith2 to do all mi recipe calculations base on pb/pm biab. I have a 5 gallon (20qt) SS kettle that I typically boil 3 1/2 gallons in. I've bittered what will be a 5 gallon batch, with, for example, 3/10 ounce of warrior for bittering. Less sweetness on the back, just that natural maltiness balanced by the right amount of hop additions. If you don't have one, you can look up brewing programs free online to start getting a handle on your over-all recipe construction.

mkyl428 said:

It sounds like you are having attenuation problems, do you enjoy any commercial ales? I don't brew extract & have not had many extract beers, but you may be referring to extract twang, that can be caused by less fermentable, usually older extract.

I see you are in OKC, have you been over to the brew shop, or Learn to Brew yet for supplies?
Cheers

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Thanks, no, I don't have a twang taste problem, just a sweet after taste that keeps it from being truly enjoyable. My last batch was my best & a little less sweet, it was a red ale.

I am not actually in OKC but about 60 miles away which make it too costly so I order online.

What have your FG's been like versus what the recipes state?

I just ordered three MoreBeer kits which will arrive today. Let me ask this, I use Safale 05 us yeast for the most part, do you think I should use the kit yeast, is that where I am going wrong?

No. It's got to be something in your process. We'll need to know more about that to make an accurate determination.

unionrdr said:

What have your FG's been like versus what the recipes state?

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My FGs have been spot on, I don't mind waiting 4 weeks or so for fermentation, then cold crash for a few days as I have a temp controlled fridge.

I bottle and condition for at least three weeks before trying one for a taste test then wait another week.

I still say it's something in your process.

I would bet Yooper is right & your problem is boil size & under bittering

unionrdr said:

I still say it's something in your process.

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I know you are correct, but being relatively new at this, I have little to compare to & there are no brewers around here to help me find my problem.

thanks, any input appreciated.

Under bittering as in not enough hops? Is that correct as hops come with the kits, should I add more during the boil or dry hop?

okiepc said:

I just ordered three MoreBeer kits which will arrive today. Let me ask this, I use Safale 05 us yeast for the most part, do you think I should use the kit yeast, is that where I am going wrong?

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You can use the same grain bill, the same hop scheduling, the same temperatures, and do everything exactly the same for 5 batches of beer, but if you pitch different yeasts in each -- they will all turn out MUCH different.

I would argue that yeast and the temperature at which you let it do its business affects the taste of beer more than hops or grains do.

If you ever have the equipment and spare cash -- boil up a 5-gallon batch of wort and split it into some of the smaller 1-gallon ferementers that are available, and pitch each with a different yeast. This will teach two VERY valuable lessons:
- demonstrate the impact that a strain has on the flavor of a beer.
- get you to finetune which strain of yeast YOU prefer for future recipes.

okiepc said:

Under bittering as in not enough hops? Is that correct as hops come with the kits, should I add more during the boil or dry hop?

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Bittering hops are added at the beginning of your boil.

Oddly enough the larger the batch that you boil, the less hops it takes to achieve a desired bitterness. So, if you are brewing a partial batch and then adding water to get to 5-gallons you will need more hops than your recipe calls for.

I highly suggest buying a good book on the subject, reading through many of the threads on this forum, and investing in a beer brewing software package.

I've noticed there isn't a lot of difference in hop utilization in a partial boil. I do 3 1/2 to 4 gallon boils with about 1/2 gallon boil off on average. The bittering BS2 gives me works quite well. I still think it's process related. Like too much extract in the boil, like LME causing too much maillard reactions & in turn, undr-attenuation. Or temp conditions in the fermenter for yeast pitched dry vs rehydrated & pitched with 10 degrees of current wort temp. Those sort of things can be giving the result the OP is having.

Norselord said:

Bittering hops are added at the beginning of your boil.

Oddly enough the larger the batch that you boil, the less hops it takes to achieve a desired bitterness. So, if you are brewing a partial batch and then adding water to get to 5-gallons you will need more hops than your recipe calls for.

I highly suggest buying a good book on the subject, reading through many of the threads on this forum, and investing in a beer brewing software package.

Click to expand...

What he said



Beersmith is great but there are some great free alternatives out there too, if you don't want to drop the money on software

IN any case, a full boil is always preferred if possible. If it's not possible then adding the majority of the extract near the end of the boil will help the hops isomerize at the right rate. Late Extract additions is one of the methods I like to use when I brewed with extract on the stovetop. It also helps the color stay a bit lighter. most extract beers tend to run darker due to the processing the extract goes through. Adding some of the extract later in the boil helps limit the caramelization.

If you are getting the right FG at the end of fermentation then it's not likely an underattenuation problem. Sometimes adding a simple fermentable, like sugar, will help dry out a beer and make it less sweet, but I wouldn't recommend it if you are getting the right FG and it's not in the ingredients list for the recipe.

I really gotta go with the hops utilization. You may desire to buy an ounce of hops and maybe add a fraction more to the recipe.

Would you describe the sweet taste being like peaches. Fermenting with US-05 below 65°F will give a peach flavor. Above 68°F will produce some generic fruitiness.

okiepc said:

I just ordered three MoreBeer kits which will arrive today. Let me ask this, I use Safale 05 us yeast for the most part, do you think I should use the kit yeast, is that where I am going wrong?

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S05 is a dandy yeast strain, for most US style beers, and it attenuates well so that's not an issue at all.

I'd say that "bigger is better", and to boil as much liquid (water/wort) as you can, and that will help a lot as well as adding the majority of the extract at flame out.

How much can you boil on your stove? Even with a bigger pot, for many people that is the limiting factor. I happen to have a great big burner on my gas range (professional burner) and I can boil 6.5 gallons on my stovetop, but most people can't.

You need a nice rolling boil, not a simmer, so I'd suggest trying to boil as much as possible and still getting a rolling boil. Of course, you don't want it to boil over as it makes a HUGE mess- but increasing the boil size may fix your issue. Also, use about 1 pound of extract per gallon in the boil. So, say you have 6 pounds of extract and are boiling 2.5 gallons to start- use 2 pounds extract or so, and add the rest of the extract at flame out. Not only will that prevent the extract from darkening and tasting "cooked", but it will give you a lot more room in the pot so you can add more water to the boil in the beginning.

When you get your kit, if you post the recipe we can help you see if there is enough bittering hops for your boil size.

Thanks a ton for all of the expert advice, I have listen to all of you & will be able to improve my procedures when brewing.

I don't much worry about making a mess as my shop building floor runs to the center where a drain is located so when I am finished I bring out the water hose & wash everything down, floor, equipment and all, makes it nice.

I have added all of the extract at the beginning so I will correct that & I shall get a larger brew pot & additional hops for the kits.

Here are two
of the kits I ordered MoreBeer Columbus IPA Extract Kit & MoreBeer Belgian Pale Ale Extract Kit. thanks

I've only got about 6 batches under my belt but Safale 05 has been ol' reliable for me so far.

okiepc said:

Thanks a ton for all of the expert advice, I have listen to all of you & will be able to improve my procedures when brewing.

I don't much worry about making a mess as my shop building floor runs to the center where a drain is located so when I am finished I bring out the water hose & wash everything down, floor, equipment and all, makes it nice.

I have added all of the extract at the beginning so I will correct that & I shall get a larger brew pot & additional hops for the kits.

Here are two
of the kits I ordered MoreBeer Columbus IPA Extract Kit & MoreBeer Belgian Pale Ale Extract Kit. thanks

Click to expand...

Just one bit of advice here: US-05 is fine for the IPA kit, but definitely use a Belgian yeast with the Belgian pale ale kit.

mkyl428 said:

Yooper could defiantly, be right about the under bittered too I didn't even think about that...

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Not sure she's defiant, but she may definitely be bitter.

Been busy (trying to finish several computers & get them back to the clients before the holidays) but after that I am going for the MoreBeer Columbus IPA, going to use all the good advice I received here. Going with a larger boil volume and adding most of the extract at the end of boil.

As I think back, the taste I encountered was most likely a caramelized taste from boiling all the extract from the beginning and too small boil volume. A lot of the sweet taste has subsided as time goes on, I will finish the last few bottles tonight, someone has to.

Thank you all for the help, I shall put it to good use.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Not sure she's defiant, but she may definitely be bitter.

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lol damn auto correct

okiepc said:

I just ordered three MoreBeer kits which will arrive today. Let me ask this, I use Safale 05 us yeast for the most part, do you think I should use the kit yeast, is that where I am going wrong?

Click to expand...

I sound like a broken record on this forum but I hate US05.

I have always got the peachy taste from it no matter what temps it was fermented at.

There's a lot of good points made that could be the issue here as well. Under bitterness could be the issue and a bigger boil may very well fix that.

Try some liquid yeast

brewprint said:

I sound like a broken record on this forum but I hate US05.

I have always got the peachy taste from it no matter what temps it was fermented at.

There's a lot of good points made that could be the issue here as well. Under bitterness could be the issue and a bigger boil may very well fix that.

Try some liquid yeast

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, I will give some thought to that, I am sure there are better choices.