thinking about starting AG brewing

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Hi guys, I have been playing around with the coopers diy beer kits for about 7 months now and have made some good brews. However I have noticed that a lot of recipes talk about seeping, boiling and stuff like that. Im guessing the it is all to do with AG brewing so im just wondering how its done. Also keep in mind that I live in a small town with no LHBS.
 
Hi guys, I have been playing around with the coopers diy beer kits for about 7 months now and have made some good brews. However I have noticed that a lot of recipes talk about seeping, boiling and stuff like that. Im guessing the it is all to do with AG brewing so im just wondering how its done. Also keep in mind that I live in a small town with no LHBS.
are there any beer clubs in your area?

thats how I learned, I did the beer ***** thing for several guys while they taught me. I guess I scrubbed more brew equipment than I ever want to admit. but in the end I knew what was up, I also realized just how much stuff you need to buy. It is not cheap to just jump into it and as you are learning on some other guys system you can be planning your system and buying it part by part.

all grain is fun, and you learn a lot, you also learn a lot about the ingredients and chemistry. Along with that you learn how to control issues in your beer. but having said that, a lot of what you learn you realise you can do with extract brewing.

I brew both ways, after all if all I am doing is simple profile beers, why fire up the big system, just do a full wort boil and I can nail the styles good, but for more complicated stuff, all grain is how to go.

good luck
 
A significant step forward from what you've been doing so far would be normal extract brewing with steeping grains and hop additions. You may want to also incorporate doing a full batch boil and gain the ability (with a wort chiller) to cool 5+ gallons of boiling liquid quickly to 60-62*F for pitching.
 
Hi guys, I have been playing around with the coopers diy beer kits for about 7 months now and have made some good brews. However I have noticed that a lot of recipes talk about seeping, boiling and stuff like that. Im guessing the it is all to do with AG brewing so im just wondering how its done. Also keep in mind that I live in a small town with no LHBS.

This is my 2 cents on how to AG BIAB.

 
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Hi guys, I have been playing around with the coopers diy beer kits for about 7 months now and have made some good brews. However I have noticed that a lot of recipes talk about seeping, boiling and stuff like that. Im guessing the it is all to do with AG brewing so im just wondering how its done. Also keep in mind that I live in a small town with no LHBS.

All grain brewing is fun and easy once you get the hang of it. Not to mention the satisfaction you get from knowing you have made a true hand crafted beer.
John Palmer's book How To Brew is an excellent resource and there isn't any questions you won't get answers for right here.
An easy explanation without going into detail would be: Heating your mash water, pouring mash water into a cooler/mash tun, add and stir grains,
let mash sit for an hour, drain to your boil kettle/pot, rinse grains with more hot water and add that to your boil. Boil for an hour, cool, drain to fermentor/carboy and add yeast.
 
Here are a few reasons NOT to start brewing AG:

1. There are an infinite number of gadgets and pieces of equipment that you will be tempted to buy.
2. Brew days are often 5 or 6 hours long and end with you rubbing your lower back.
3. You will, at some point, pretend that you can understand water chemistry, adjust your water accordingly, and produce a really bad tasting beer, all the while telling your friends about caco3, cations, ions, and residual alkalinity.
4. You will forget to put one of the ingredients in the beer - and if it's just whirlfloc you should count yourself lucky.
5. You will be too busy thinking about the taste difference between US 2-row and Maris Otter that you will rack your beer with unsanitized tubing.
6. You will forget to shut the ball valve on your mash tun and/or kettle.
7. You will think that you can lift a pot of 40 liters of boiling water and burn yourself.

That all being said. I really really enjoy it and I am always excited when the next brew day is coming up... it must be for the sport of the thing.
 
Here are a few reasons NOT to start brewing AG:

1. There are an infinite number of gadgets and pieces of equipment that you will be tempted to buy.

This one I sort of disagree with. You won't find yourself merely tempted, you'll find yourself saying, "Well, now I need this to brew," and will open up your wallet.
 
I don't know what kind of equipment or budget you have right now, but here's my $0.02: When I made the switch from extract to AG, I did 2.5 gallon batches because I could do it on the stovetop without buying a whole lot of extra equipment (maybe just a DIY mash tun with a SS braid). Worked great and it allowed me to dial in my process. Once I got the hang of it, I made the $700 or so investment in a full-blown outdoor rig for 5+ gallon batches.
 
Like with most hobbies, you can spend as little as you want or as much as you want.
I started out AG and never have tried extract brewing. I made my own equipment and bought a stainless turkey fryer and converted a cooler for my mash tun. It wasn't very costly and since I find myself wanting to keep busy doing something, it was fun and gratifying making all this come together.
So don't hold yourself back if you want to advance your hobby to the next level.
Like most of us, there is nothing like looking forward to brew day!
 
Hi guys, I have been playing around with the coopers diy beer kits for about 7 months now and have made some good brews. However I have noticed that a lot of recipes talk about seeping, boiling and stuff like that. Im guessing the it is all to do with AG brewing so im just wondering how its done. Also keep in mind that I live in a small town with no LHBS.

I think y'all might be missing an important piece here...he's been making Cooper's kits which are no boil, mix all the ingredients together, and pitch the yeast.
Tasty, you do not need to jump into all grain to take the next step. Buy a kit from a reputable vendor (Brewer's Best, Northern Brewer, Austin Homebrew Supply, etc.) and look into extract brewing with steeping grains. Basically the kits you have been making do all the work for you (which for me takes the fun out of it!)-the extract is pre-hopped so you don't have to boil it.

The next step is to steep some grains at about 150°F in a large pot capable of boiling at least 3-4 gallons w/o overflowing, add some more water, add some malt extract (which is just a concentrated version of what AG & commercial brewers make with grain), and add hops to the boiling wort according to the recipe-usually at 60, 30, & maybe 5 minutes. You boil everything for an hour, cool it down using an ice bath in your kitchen sink, pour it into your fermenter, and pitch the yeast. You will be blown away by the quality of the beer you make over those Cooper's kits! Welcome to your new obsession!
 
I think y'all might be missing an important piece here...he's been making Cooper's kits which are no boil, mix all the ingredients together, and pitch the yeast.

Not all y'all. :D

That's very much the same thing I had told him. I noticed that he was doing the pre-hopped HME stuff (very similar to Mr. Beer) and thought (as you do) that a good next step for him in both learning curve and final product would be extract with steeping grains and possibly doing full-batch boils with chilling.:mug:
 
Not all y'all. :D

That's very much the same thing I had told him. I noticed that he was doing the pre-hopped HME stuff (very similar to Mr. Beer) and thought (as you do) that a good next step for him in both learning curve and final product would be extract with steeping grains and possibly doing full-batch boils with chilling.:mug:

Missed that Big Floyd =]
Let me redact that statement and say "Most of y'all..."
 
A significant step forward from what you've been doing so far would be normal extract brewing with steeping grains and hop additions. You may want to also incorporate doing a full batch boil and gain the ability (with a wort chiller) to cool 5+ gallons of boiling liquid quickly to 60-62*F for pitching.

+10,000

There are a large number of shades of gray between kit brewing and all-grain brewing. I spent eight months progressing from kit brewing to all-grain brewing because I did it in increments (I was extremely resistant to the idea of brewing outdoors). I brewed a couple of kits before making a couple of extract plus specialty grains and hops recipes. From there, I quickly progressed to partial-mash brewing, where I remained for seven months. I was able to produce several award winning beers using a partial mashing scheme in which 50% of the extract was produced from grain. I would have remained at this stage for a long time had I not cracked the porcelain burner box on my electric stove using a cheap stainless steel pot. That damage was the impetus to move outside.

Things were a lot different when I started brewing in the early nineties than they are today. The majority of amateur brewers traveled the path that I took getting to all-grain because all-grain brewing required one to fabricate all of one's own gear, which required knowledge that was only obtained by doing. The beauty of the approach that I took was that it allowed me to ease into all-grain brewing. I was able to learn how different ingredients and fermentation profiles affected the outcome of a batch without having to deal with the complexities of all-grain brewing (while producing a consistent product via all-grain brewing is second nature today, I can remember when achieving a consistent batch-to-batch extraction rate was very difficult).

Today, amateur brewers appear to be in hurry to progress to all-grain. What I find silly is that many amateur brewers will spend four to six hours producing an all-grain wort into which they pitch dry yeast. To me, that's a sign of a brewer who has not yet grasped the reality that yeast is the most important ingredient in beer. Anyone who has bothered to read any of my postings knows that I am a yeast geek. While I may have taken eight months to progress to all-grain brewing, I started using cultured yeast after my third batch of beer. Making good beer has very little to do with being able to cook. Making good beer is about being able to manage a biochemical process in which one is controlling spoilage via biological quality control and knowledge of how a biologic behaves in wort. Anyone who doubts what I have said should taste his/her wort before and after pitching his/her yeast culture. The finished product tastes nothing like wort.
 
Gotta disagree with your knock on dry yeast man. I've been brewing for several years and have a large yeast bank of bottle harvested and washed yeast. That said I find dry yeast very convenient for my basic brews. The quality of the dry yeast available to us today is light years beyond what was available even 10-15 years ago. Plenty of brews that I'll use washed yeast or buy liquid yeast and make a starter for, but just about anything I brew with Chico strain is getting Safale US-05! I just don't think you should let your predisposition to liquid yeast make a newer brewer think that they can't make good beer with dry yeast, because that's not true.
 
It's unfortunate that all extract brewing is categorized as kits in a can or Mr beer kits. The main difference between me "extract brewer" and someone who does all grain is that i use 7-9 pounds of extract vs 12-15 pounds of base malt a AG brewer uses.
 
It's unfortunate that all extract brewing is categorized as kits in a can or Mr beer kits. The main difference between me "extract brewer" and someone who does all grain is that i use 7-9 pounds of extract vs 12-15 pounds of base malt a AG brewer uses.

To me the main difference would have to be having the satisfaction of knowing it's all mine and I had control in the out come every step of the way.
Like with my wine making. I'll take the 6 or 7 hour day do drive east of the mountains to get my grapes from the vineyard over a juice kit any day.
Kits make good wine but I wouldn't be able to sit back with a glass knowing how and where this wine started from.
I'm not knocking anyone's preference here, this is just what works for me.
 
Gotta disagree with your knock on dry yeast man. I've been brewing for several years and have a large yeast bank of bottle harvested and washed yeast. That said I find dry yeast very convenient for my basic brews. The quality of the dry yeast available to us today is light years beyond what was available even 10-15 years ago. Plenty of brews that I'll use washed yeast or buy liquid yeast and make a starter for, but just about anything I brew with Chico strain is getting Safale US-05! I just don't think you should let your predisposition to liquid yeast make a newer brewer think that they can't make good beer with dry yeast, because that's not true.


First off, I do not brew with liquid yeast. I brewed with cultured yeast, which is not quite the same thing. The difference between a dry culture and a lab-quality culture is bigger than the difference between extract and all-grain beer.

Secondly, you do know that rinsing yeast with boiled tap water and storing yeast under boiled tap water is a practice that is not supported by science? You will not find the practice mentioned in any brewing science or brewing-related microbiology textbook. It is pure amateur brewer voodoo that is more likely to result in an infected culture than a pure culture because boiled water is not sterile (water must be autoclaved to render it sterile), and replacing green beer with water removes the protective shield that the culture built for itself during fermentation.


I have a lot of experience managing lab-quality brewing yeast in a home brewery environment. Here's what properly stored yeast cultures look like:

Regardless of source, all cultures must be plated for singles in order to assure purity.

Scottish and Newcastle's Tyneside Culture

SandNYeast_zpsc0067d33.jpg


Southern Tier's Pitching Yeast

PlatedYeast_zps10c1ab8c.jpg



Single Colonies from plates are transferred to slants for long-term storage.

My Current Bank

MyCurrentBank1_zps31b27281.jpg



Cultures that I Isolated from Brewery Sources

CulturesIIsolated1_zps0e5d67cf.jpg


The slant shown above on with the letters "HAR" written on the Parafilm is Harpoon's culture.


Cultures That I Plated from Culture Collection Sources

CCyeast1_zpsdc754fa7.jpg


I stand by my assertion that dried yeast, while better than it was ten years ago, is nowhere near as good as cultured yeast or even fresh liquid cultures because a) dried yeast is propagated aerobically in a medium that consists mostly of molasses (i.e., dried yeast never goes through anaerobic fermentation with malt-derived carbon sources until it is pitched into a batch of wort), and b) dried yeast manufacturers have higher acceptable levels of contamination than liquid culture manufacturers. The only advantage that dried yeast offers is ease of use.
 
It's unfortunate that all extract brewing is categorized as kits in a can or Mr beer kits. The main difference between me "extract brewer" and someone who does all grain is that i use 7-9 pounds of extract vs 12-15 pounds of base malt a AG brewer uses.

There is definitely a difference between extract brewing and kit brewing. Many award winning beers have been made with extract.
 
I would recommend some mini mash beers before going all grain. If you still want to do all-grain, consider brew in bag. I think that is a great way to transition.
 
It's unfortunate that all extract brewing is categorized as kits in a can or Mr beer kits. The main difference between me "extract brewer" and someone who does all grain is that i use 7-9 pounds of extract vs 12-15 pounds of base malt a AG brewer uses.

I know of a few guys who do not go over to ALL Grain and are some excellent brewers, However they use good recipes, good equipment and good technique. I think a few of them can teach an all grainer a few things about brewing beer.

It is not about how you brew, it is about how you brew.
 
I know of a few guys who do not go over to ALL Grain and are some excellent brewers, However they use good recipes, good equipment and good technique. I think a few of them can teach an all grainer a few things about brewing beer.

It is not about how you brew, it is about how you brew.

There is definitely a difference between extract brewing and kit brewing. Many award winning beers have been made with extract.


Can I get an Amen!
 
I know of a few guys who do not go over to ALL Grain and are some excellent brewers, However they use good recipes, good equipment and good technique. I think a few of them can teach an all grainer a few things about brewing beer.

It is not about how you brew, it is about how you brew.

I agree completely. You can make great beer with extract and some steeping grains.
 
I go back and forth depending on time constraints. I started with two extract kits and then went all-grain. I usually do all-grain merely for the price. Extract is easier and faster, but more expensive.

I don't get into yeast science, I just scoop out a cup from the old batch and let it sit in the fridge until the next day to pitch.
 
In order to brew all-grain you must have a collection of petri dishes, beer agar, and sterile loops. You need to isolate your yeast cells, grow them, store them, and get them active again before pitching them into your beer.

You must also strive to use words like flocculate and volauf in everyday conversation.

Using Coopers' kits is way faster and has none of those requirements... but if you just can't help yourself and find you have to "vorlauf" something, you might consider all-grain.
 
In order to brew all-grain you must have a collection of petri dishes, beer agar, and sterile loops. You need to isolate your yeast cells, grow them, store them, and get them active again before pitching them into your beer.

You must also strive to use words like flocculate and volauf in everyday conversation.

Using Coopers' kits is way faster and has none of those requirements... but if you just can't help yourself and find you have to "vorlauf" something, you might consider all-grain.

Don't feed the trolls =]
 
Don't feed the trolls =]

I prefer to think of myself as using sarcasm to illustrate the idea that some people think that in order to be a "real" homebrewer you need to need to get a second degree in brewing.

Since it's a hobby, there is so much room for people to invest however much time and energy they want. Kit's are great! Extract is great! AG is great! Building your own yeast bank is great! But we don't all have to fit in the same category.

So, Mr. OP, spend as much time and thought on this as you would like! The spectrum is HUGE.
 
All grain is really pretty easy - I would suggest you go for it! BIAB is you want, but I find a mash tun better and less of a hassle myself. Here's what I suggest:

10 gallon cooler, braid and spigot for the mash
10 gallon kettle
Induction plate + 1500w heat stick for the boil
50' immersion chiller
6.5 gallon carboy(s) or use your coopers fermentor

You'll need tubing for the mash tun and the boil kettle

Good luck!

Steve da sleeve
 
I prefer to think of myself as using sarcasm to illustrate the idea that some people think that in order to be a "real" homebrewer you need to need to get a second degree in brewing.

Since it's a hobby, there is so much room for people to invest however much time and energy they want. Kit's are great! Extract is great! AG is great! Building your own yeast bank is great! But we don't all have to fit in the same category.

So, Mr. OP, spend as much time and thought on this as you would like! The spectrum is HUGE.

Can I get an Amen!
 
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