Need to Plumb my new Single Tier (Brutus 10 Style) ANY SUGGESTIONS?

I have framed up my single tier out of 1.5" square tubing. I want to phase into a full blown control panel setup with all the bells and whistles. But, I want to make sure I plumb the gas right the first time.

I have (3) 55,000 BTU burners and have yet to weld into place the cross bars to support the kegs and burner brackets. I want to eventually have a control panel on the right side of the stand with all three gas burner controls underneath it.

I would like to add an auto starting feature to the burner (thermostat + ignitor?), but don't know where to start. How do I incorporate a temperature control that would start/stop each burner once set to a specefic temp?



You can see my previous attempt in the background. I tried to save money and make a stand out of fence tubing from Lowe's. I intended to paint over the galvanized steel to prevent the fumes from burning the galvanized steel (welders cough). It was a lost cause so I abandoned ship. It was good practice tube notching, but a waste of money.

If it helps, there are a lot of pictures available for my Brutus/MoreBeer 1100 clone build in this thread. I didn't use external plumbing for all of it, but it should give you some ideas.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/brutus-more-beer-1100-hybrid-stand-complete-73169/

You can find a little more information about how I wired the gas valve and temp controllers in this thread. I got some help from others in the forums to fix something I couldn't figure out.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/help-wiring-honeywell-y8610u-gas-control-valve-pilot-burner-72295/

Hopefully some of that helps.

Nice work on the stand. I wish I had your welding skills.

If you want to add a BCS-460 controller instead of a Ranco, the wiring is very similar to cdburgs wiring, just substitute BCS-460 + SSR instead of the Ranco to switch the 24vac to the valves.

I need a basic explanation of what I should do to control all three (or two)burners from a control panel. I've gathered that I need a Love controller 110v, but now what?

It's hard to put together a parts list when I don't quite understand exactly what each part does. Can someone expalin how a gas valve, thermostat, pilot valve (auto shutoff) and Love controller go together?

I'm sure it goes without saying that I'm trying to use a digital controller (Love) to send gas to the burners to regulate the temperature in the 3 kettles, but I don't know what parts I need and how they go together.

Thanks!

Call Joe the plumber.

I built my system to be more like a MoreBeer 1100. The honeywell gas valve controls the flow of gas to the HLT low pressure burner. It also handles the pilot light for that burner. One of the Ranco units controls that gas valve. I set the control unit to a specific temperature, which is monitors through a thermowell in the HLT. The control unit then tells the gas valve to light the pilot burner and then turn on the gas flow to the burner. When the water reaches the temperature I set, the control unit sends a signal telling the the gas valve to turn off the pilot and stop the gas flow.

To control the mash temp, I don't use direct heat. I use a normal high pressure, lit manually, to heat the strike water near temperature. I then recirculate wort through a copper heat exchanger in the HLT to raise the temperature as needed. I set the control panel's other Ranco control unit to the mash temp. The Ranco then turns a pump on, when needed, to raise the temperature of the mash. I can keep the temperature of the mash at exactly the temperature I need without heating the kettle directly. I prefer that, since it eliminates the risk of any scorching or burning.

If you haven't already looked at the Brutus 10 article in BYO, I'd recommend you do so. Lonnie described how he set up and wired his stand using the Love controllers and Asco valves.

Willy Boner said:

Call Joe the plumber.

Click to expand...

ROTF & LMAO

Thanks for the explanation cdburg. I have already purchased (3) high pressure burners from Bayou Classic. I've noticed that many people have a lower pressure burner. Should I switch one out?



Also, why do many people choose not to have a controller on the boiler kettle. I'm going to purchase a LOVE digital controller, but an unsure if I should buy two or three.

Thanks...

For me, it was easier, to install a pilot light with the low pressure burner. You can run the pilot into the middle of the burner instead of having to rig up something that suspends it near the side of a high pressure burner. The low pressure burner set up looks cooler too.

I think that you'll want a little more manual control over your boil kettle than an automated set up can give you. A boil over can happen easily enough if you're watching. If you try to set it up with some type of temperature regulated deal, you could be risking making a mess or worse. For me, it's not worth the risk and definitely not worth the added money it would take for the set up.

I'm still trying to understand the process of controlling the temperature with a digital controller. I assume there is some kind of probe that monitors the temperature of the inside of the kettle.

Where is this located and how is it mounted?

Can someone provide examples/brands?

Thanks!

The way I did mine... and I'll admit, I'm not a fan but for right now, it's how I'm going to do it... is I simply wrapped the probe right to one of my pipes coming out of my mash tun with a bit of pipe insulation and duct tape.

I hard-plumbed by entire single teir system and am running a constant-circulating mash tun through a Shirron chill plate while running the hot water from my HLT through the other side of the chill plate. I have a temp controller on my "outflow" from the Mash tun and that temp controller controls the pump on the HLT. I have a second temp control on my HLT to maintain whatever temp I want (a bit warmer then my mash temp) and when the temp of my mash falls below the temp, the temp controller flips on the HLT pump and pumps hot water through the chill plate.

I never have any direct heat on my mash tun and I never have any "hot spots" as the mash is constantly circulating.

My father plumbed up my two high pressure gas burners (the same one you linked above)with electric gas valves and pilots so they can be totally controlled by the temp controllers.

(sorry for the quick repost)...

The reason I am simply wrapping the probe to the outflow is that the probe that came with my temp controller isn't water proof and I didn't want to hard-mount it in a thermowell as I want to be able to quickly take my pots off the stand.

My entire rig is hard-plumbed (like I was saying) but I have about 5.8 millions unions brazed into the thing. Ok, maybe not 5.8 million but it's a lot. I did that so,w hile it's hard plumbed, I can take it ALL apart pretty easily and dunk it all in a tub of iodifor or something if I really wanted to.

The controller should have a thermometer probe connected to it or have a jack where a probe can be connected. That probe is then inserted into a thermowell that is installed into the kettle. It allows the probe to measure the temperature of the liquid inside the kettle.

I used MoreBeer's thermowell. It's a little expensive, but it's stainless, well made and will not leak.

MoreBeer | 5" Shielded Coupler Thermowell

I also had MoreBeer weld on an extra coupler onto the kettle. The thermowell screws directly into the coupler.

I can post pictures tonight if you'd like.

Yes, please post some pictures. This will difinitely help me understand the process. Do you have the probes on all three kettles?

Thanks.

You need a controller (Ranco or other) a gas solinoid valve and a pilot light assembly which will be a flame or an electric element or spark igniter. The pilot should have a safety circuit to stop the gas if the pilot does not light the gas.

Like this:

I don't have thermowells on all three kettles. As I mentioned previously, the boil kettle is all manually controlled. I have the thermowells in the mash tun and hot liquor tank.


This shows the thermowell going through the side of the kettle.


This is the end of the Ranco probe.


This is the controller probe totally inserted into the thermowell.

The set up for the HLT looks exactly like the diagram WBC posted. As I mentioned earlier, I'm using the second Ranco to control a pump that routes through a heat exchanger in the HLT to raise the temperature in the mash tun. I don't have the mash tun burner hooked up to an automated system.

Let me know if you'd like pictures of anything else.

Nice Pic WBC....well done

How does the temp probe form a water tight seal when it is inserted into the thermowell?

Also, is there a need for thermometer mounted on the kettle if you have a temp. probe? I'm assuming that a LOVE digital controller would display the temperature.

Is that correct, or does it only display the temp. at which it is set?

Thanks!

The thermowell basically forms a stainless sleeve around the probe. The probe isn't actually touching the liquid. It's touching the metal sleeve that's then touching the liquid. The probe is inside the thermowell. The thermowell touches the liquid, not the probe.



When you push the probe all the way into the thermowell, it touches the thermowell wall at the area I've indicated in the image. The stainless thermowell jacket passes the heat to the probe which then registers the temperature.

I have thermometers in addition to the probes, just to serve as a backup. They probably aren't totally necessary, but it's good to have confirmation of the temps.

Ahhh that makes sense! Great photos. Do you have the wiring of the probe in a protective conduit that goes back to the control panel?

Thanks...

I do have the probe wire running through galvanized steel conduit tubing to the control panel box. The tubing helps protect the probe wiring from the heat of the HLT burner. Since it doesn't get direct heat, I'm comfortable using galvanized tubing.

I purchased:

(2) Love Controllers
(2) STC Solenoid Valves

Now I need:

(2) Pilot Gas Valves

Anybody got suggestions? Also, I'm mounting it to the high pressure burner in the previous post. So, I need to figure out a way to do that, too.

Thanks.

The reason I went with the Honeywell gas valve is that it handles both the gas for the pilot burner and the main burner. The valve will only open and send gas to the main burner once it recognizes that the pilot light is lit.

If you're going to use Asco gas valves or something similar to what Lonnie used on the Brutus, you may have to run a slightly different set up. He just ran gas lines for the pilot lights. They don't have any kind of automated control or safety shut off. He lights them at the beginning of the day and relys on the fact that the flame won't blow out. It works, but if the flame goes out, you could have a problem.

Some different ways of doing the pilot lights have been discussed already. Some of those threads may help.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brutus-ten-gas-system-57884/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/spark-ignition-brutus-67922/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/pencil-torch-standing-pilot-67111/

Search for "brutus pilot" and you should find a bunch of threads about Brutus pilot light set ups.

The MoreBeer forum also has some threads:
Morebeer's Brew Chat • View topic - Pilot lights
Morebeer's Brew Chat • View topic - Asco Valves

Good luck!

I looked at the links (thanks) and didn't see specific reference to Honewell Valve model numbers. Can you tell me your model number and where you got your dual-purpose valve that controls the gas and pilot?

Thanks

The links I posted were more around if you don't use the Honeywell gas valve and use the solenoid valves you bought.

The specific Honeywell gas valve I used was included in the original thread I posted:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/767392-post24.html

You'll need to buy a pilot burner too. It's not included in the kit at the link above.

I've got some black BBQ paint that I'm going to use to paint my single tier.

My question is "Do I need high temp primer, too?"

Thanks...

I'm not positive either way. I only used paint on the gas tubing. Since it doesn't get direct flame exposure, I didn't use primer. The stand is stainless.

You might try a new thread in the "Equipment/Sanitation" section. It might give the question a better shot of being seen by someone who painted his stand.

Good call...I just started a new thread in that section, thanks.

cdburg said:

I don't have thermowells on all three kettles. As I mentioned previously, the boil kettle is all manually controlled. I have the thermowells in the mash tun and hot liquor tank.

This shows the thermowell going through the side of the kettle.

This is the end of the Ranco probe.

This is the controller probe totally inserted into the thermowell.

The set up for the HLT looks exactly like the diagram WBC posted. As I mentioned earlier, I'm using the second Ranco to control a pump that routes through a heat exchanger in the HLT to raise the temperature in the mash tun. I don't have the mash tun burner hooked up to an automated system.

Let me know if you'd like pictures of anything else.

Click to expand...

Hey cdburg, I got my Love Controller and wanted to know if it is OK to extend the wires on the probe? I plan to solder some 18 ga. wire to extend it a additional 6'...will this mess up the signal?

Thanks...

I'm not sure. I know that you can extend the Ranco controller probe wires. I'm not sure about the Love Controllers. You would need to read the documentation that came with the controller to see the maximum length and if there are any specific requirements for the wire used.

BrewVegas said:

I have framed up my single tier out of 1.5" square tubing. I want to phase into a full blown control panel setup with all the bells and whistles. But, I want to make sure I plumb the gas right the first time.

I have (3) 55,000 BTU burners and have yet to weld into place the cross bars to support the kegs and burner brackets. I want to eventually have a control panel on the right side of the stand with all three gas burner controls underneath it.

I would like to add an auto starting feature to the burner (thermostat + ignitor?), but don't know where to start. How do I incorporate a temperature control that would start/stop each burner once set to a specefic temp?

You can see my previous attempt in the background. I tried to save money and make a stand out of fence tubing from Lowe's. I intended to paint over the galvanized steel to prevent the fumes from burning the galvanized steel (welders cough). It was a lost cause so I abandoned ship. It was good practice tube notching, but a waste of money.

Click to expand...

Here are some follow-up pix on my build:

Here is a picture of the water chiller that I got for free this weekend.



Here are some pictures of the single tier stand that I am building:

I've decided to post pictures of my build on this thread I started so people can see the the outcome of the various topics discussed.

Here is the 1.25" squre tubing that I started off with

This was a pretty neat propane indicator LED that I got from Lowe's.

Don't know if you're considering solenoid valves for the flow of lquid through the rig as well but I just found ones one EBay that are working extremely well for my rig.

The guy has a ton of different kinds.

I went with 1" port, viton seal (heat resistant up to 270 degrees) with 110V coils. They have 1/2 orifices in them and when open, let everything flow through perfectly.

I'm not trying to sell anything and I don't know the guy at all... I just relaly like the valves and they're a really decent price for solenoids.

If you're interested, you have to touch base with the guy and let him know you want the 110V coil and viton seal... they don't cost extra.

Electric Solenoid Valve 1" 24-VDC, Water, Diesel (B21N) - eBay (item 300284294312 end time Jan-31-09 20:37:11 PST)

Thanks for the link!

I am curious about that water chiller. Is that thing designed to handle boiling temps?

I haven't hooked it up yet, but as per someone else's suggestion on HBT, I will probably hook it up to recirculate in the HLT during the boil to chill that water, then circulate that water throught the CF chiller.

I'm still finishing up the build on my single tier and hope to test out the chiller once that is done...probably in about 2-3 weeks.

Which STC valves are you using, and where did you get them?