How Many of You?....

... still brew extract from time to time?

My pipeline is pretty much spent right now. I only have my red on tap with maybe 25 pints left. I have 4 weddings this summer and my weekends are pretty shot until mid May with jack & Jills. Including one bachelor party.

So, I'm kind of in conflict right now. I'm proud to be an all-grain brewer now but the time and ease of extract is pulling me back. I don't like going backwards!

My main problem is my beer quality went up significantly when I switched to All-Grain. Now this could also be attributed to me lowering my fermentation tempatures to 65-68 around the same time... but I believe it was having the freedom to use different Malts too.

Maybe if I found a good recipe I would go back for a couple months.

I have another question though and it may help my decision... I never asked it because I made the switch before I could brew extract again. Can you use Reverse Osmosis water with DME? I read somewhere that it was okay to do with extract because the minerals in the water used to make the DME are still intact. Can someone verify this?

For me, the extra time spent brewing all-grain is totally worth it even if it means I brew less often. Quality over quantity for me. Many people have said you can brew decent beer with extract, I was personally never able to brew a good one nor have I ever tasted a good one brewed by someone else. So although I do want to believe the what other people are saying about the quality of extract brewing, it's not been my experience and thus I will never brew another extract only beer. I have used extract on a couple of occasions to increase the gravity of my beer where needed, I've always done so with moderation and have gotten very good results. If you think you can brew extract beers that you feel are good and palatable and you think you can brew more beer this way as opposed to using grain, then there is no shame in going back to basics. But I know I couldn't.

I do also want to add that I only brew one batch a month so fitting the 6 hours it takes me to brew an all grain batch isn't a problem. I wouldn't be able to brew more beer even if I was doing extract 'cause my limiting factor is funds, not time.

There is no shame in a partial mash.

If I was the only person drinking my beer I could probably get away with 1 batch per month.

However... We drink a fair bit of beer... Still only 24years old and still go out drinking once a week. I only have 2 friends who would drink my beer...but they drink enough of it!

They drained my Munich Helles last weekend. lol. At least they pay me for it, which is why I also feel the need to keep my pipeline going.

I'm thinking maybe switching back and fourth. One extract, one AG, one Extract....etc etc.

Your friends paid you for the beer they drank? I'm lucky to get the empty bottles back.

Doing an extract kit this Saturday. My son wanted to learn the basics so I bought the Sam Adams kit from Austin Homebrew. No big deal you can get some fine beer with extract kits.

I was considering the exact same thing as it took me about 6 hours from start to finish on my last batch. I contemplated doing a mini mash with extract, or getting up at 4:30am to get started.

I am opting for getting up at 4:30am to get started on my next batch.

I would consider extract, but I have only used it once back in 1992 and would have to figure out how to use it again. 4:30am just sounds easier to me.

Doesn't extract cost a lot more than grain?

Mateo said:

Doesn't extract cost a lot more than grain?

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Yes, a bit more. And considerably more if you buy grain in bulk. On the other hand, I have not seen much in savings since I switched to all grain, as I tend to brew way more.

Mateo said:

Doesn't extract cost a lot more than grain?

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I've made some pretty good beer with extract, but this^ is why I'll probably never brew extract again. I cut my per-batch cost in half by going all-grain.

In theory, I maintain that I would/will.
Hasn't happened.

In theory, I maintain that I would/will.
Hasn't happened.

I am just starting to brew for competition and have found that I like to get the recipe (ie IBUs, specialty malts etc...) down using extract and then brew the competition product AG. This saves me a lot of time as I might brew a batch 3 or 4 times before I get the recipe I want. I think it is OK to go back and forth but that is just me...

I will occasionally brew an extract side batch while I am mashing the main batch. These are usually to fill the pipeline when it gets a little thin.

No. I don't have time issues. Can't see any reason to ever go back and brew an extract batch.

I brewed a extract with steeping grains last fall because the kit was on sale and figured I could hammer it out quicker so what the heck.

Yeah, the beer turned out horrible, don't see myself doing that again

For me personally, it took me a while to get back to my extract quality when I switched to AG. I still think the best beer I ever made was either a batch of porter or IPA that I made back in my extract days.

Anyway... I don't see myself going back. I brew because I like the process. Going back to extract would have a reduction in process and, thus, a reduction in my enjoyment.

509inc said:

There is no shame in a partial mash.

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Partial Mash doesn't really save any time.

AG is way too much fun to ever brew extract again. Plus, I was a crappy extract brewer for some reason.

I've brewed Stones Ruination as extract and AG. It's one of those beers I like either way. I would not do a lighter American beer or a Lager extract anymore, but have no problem with something with some zip in it. However I find extract to be like making a can of condensed soup and rather boring, so I would only do it in an emergency of some kind.

I would only do it in an emergency of some kind.

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I am glad I am not the only one who has beer emergencies.

Nothing backwards about it. Oregon Brew Crew has an Extract-only competition every year and Widmer doesn't limit their Collaborator beers to AG. I tend to use extract for wheats and IPAs.

I like the brew while you brew idea! lol. I could totally swing brewing an extract while mashing.

As much as all-grain kills about six hours, to me there isn't enough time savings to warrant going the extract route. I've got about 20 all-grains under my belt (literally) now, no need to go back.

mhermetz said:

I like the brew while you brew idea! lol. I could totally swing brewing an extract while mashing.

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Brew an extract batch during the mash on a partigyle day! Triple brew day!

maskednegator said:

Brew an extract batch during the mash on a partigyle day! Triple brew day!

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Might as well mix up a batch of apfelwine while you're at it.

uwjester said:

Might as well mix up a batch of apfelwine while you're at it.

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Holy Raving Apples Batman!

.... you just reminded me. I have a case of 22oz bottles of Apfelwein that was made last year in January! Cripes... I have to dig those out of my workroom. It's going to be glorious.

A bit of a side note, as I constantly see this point coming up. I have to take some issue with people claiming only minimal time saving with extract and/or no time saving between partial and all grain. I can do an extract batch start to finish, includes setup and cleanup, in about four hours. An all grain batch seems to take about six for me. I will admit, I've only had limited experience with them so far. If I do a partial mash using a stove top method like Death Brewer's or the one in the back of Brewing Classic Styles it takes about five hours. For those with busy schedules, read young kids who demand attention, one or two hours can be a SIGNIFICANT time savings. So, my two cents on that issue.

mhermetz said:

I like the brew while you brew idea! lol. I could totally swing brewing an extract while mashing.

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I like this idea a lot, but my fermentation chamber is only big enough for one vessel at a time.

Um, honey...sweatheart...remember how I said I didn't need anything else after buying this freezer???

4 hours for extract?

3 hours easy for me.. if not lower. Definitly 6 for AG

I do an AG batch in 4 or 4.5 hours. Extract wouldn't be any faster for me if I was using specialty grains and full volume boils, because I still have the same basic steps of AG (heat water, soak grain, get it all boiling, add hops, chill 5 gallons with IC, rack to fermenter.)

If I was doing partial volume boils, I could shave time off with waiting for temps to rise or fall, but probably not much time savings.

When I started AG, it was taking me 5 or 6 hours. But, as I get more comfortable with the process and didn't have to go over checklists and whatnot so much, I flow nicely now.

mhermetz said:

4 hours for extract?

3 hours easy for me.. if not lower. Definitly 6 for AG

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I can do it in 3.5, if I'm lucky, but a lot of this is me dragging all my brewing gear down the stairs, setting it up, and then packing it all away again. Not being able to store it at my brew location adds a significant amount of time to the process.

I agree with Walker. I can do an AG batch in about 4.5 hours. But there are limitations to that. There can't be any continental malts that need a 90 minute boil and I have to mash high. If I have to boil off DMS precursors or mash an extra 15-30 minutes, the AG day gets extended a bit.

For the double batch day I will start steeping water for the steeped grains (extract batch) as I am filling up the electric HLT for the AG mash. By the time the HLT is at heat, I am ready to boil the extract mash and add extract and hops. I will collect the first runnings from the mash tun in a fermenter bucket while I am cooling and transfering the extract wort to the better bottle to ferment. If everything goes well, I should have the boil kettle clean by the time I need to pull the 2nd runnings from the mast tun. From there it is just a regular boil.

I know... nobody asked. But there was a little interest so I shared.

I'm not sure that anyone has addressed your question about DI/RO water with extract. I've used it with no ill effects.

uwjester said:

I agree with Walker. I can do an AG batch in about 4.5 hours. But there are limitations to that. There can't be any continental malts that need a 90 minute boil and I have to mash high. If I have to boil off DMS precursors or mash an extra 15-30 minutes, the AG day gets extended a bit.

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I still can't fathom how that's possible. Using my times (and these are approximate, off the top of my head):

30 min: Strike water heating
10 min: Pre-heat mash tun/dough-in
60 min: Mash
10 min: First runnings
10 min: Sparge (batch)
10 min: Second runnings
20 min: Heat to boiling
60 min: Boil
30 min: Cool wort

That's four hours right there, with no clean-up done. And inevitably, it takes a bit of time to go between steps, probably a lot more than 30 minutes for me. Clean-up is probably another 30 minutes.

If you can suggest where I can save time, I'm all ears.

Well, you did all the math right there. I really don't have any lag time between steps. I know what's coming next and I am ready for it.

The boil is an hour long, and that's plenty of time to clean things. When my wort is finally in the fermenter, the ONLY thing I have left to clean up is the kettle and one hose. That literally just takes a few minutes.

Looking back over your itemized lists of times, I'd like to add more info.

It does not take me 30 minutes to heat up strike water. I have never timed it specifically, but I "benchmarked" my propane burner when I got it and know that it can bring 5 gallons to a boil in 25 minutes, so I'm guessing bringing 4 gallons to strike temp takes 20 min(?).

Secondly, I don't preheat my tun. After brewing my first couple AG batches and having a lot of problems with temps and volumes, I sat down and analyzed my equipment. One thing I measured was the heat sucking capacity of my tun. I know how much heat my tun will absorb from the amount of strike water I am going to use on a given batch, so I heat strike water accordingly.

Also, I really don't think it takes me 10 minutes to drain the tun to my kettle, but I've never timed it.

509inc said:

Your friends paid you for the beer they drank? I'm lucky to get the empty bottles back.

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...and if I do they still have slugs growing in them...and it doesn't matter how many times i ask them to rinse them out...

jpc said:

I still can't fathom how that's possible. Using my times (and these are approximate, off the top of my head):

30 min: Strike water heating
10 min: Pre-heat mash tun/dough-in
60 min: Mash
10 min: First runnings
10 min: Sparge (batch)
10 min: Second runnings
20 min: Heat to boiling
60 min: Boil
30 min: Cool wort

That's four hours right there, with no clean-up done. And inevitably, it takes a bit of time to go between steps, probably a lot more than 30 minutes for me. Clean-up is probably another 30 minutes.

If you can suggest where I can save time, I'm all ears.

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-10 Pre-heat the mash tun while the strike water is heating.
-15 Start the boil with first runnings
-25 Plate chiller takes about 5 minutes to cool the wort on the way to the fermenter

As for cleaning, heat some water in the hlt at the beginning of the boil. At about 30 min pump (or drain) into the pre-rinsed MLT with oxyclean or PBW and let it soak until the boil is done. Pump or drain the soapy water into the boil kettle to clean it. I am pumping hot PBW through my equipment while I add yeast and get the fermenter into the chest freezer.

30 min heat strike water / pre-heat MLT / crush grains (if not pre-crushed)
5 min dough in
60 min mash
10 min first runnings
5 min sparge
10 min 2nd runnings
20 min to boil - aggressive use of heat
60 min boil
10 min cool
15 min clean

That is just shy of 4 hours. Sometimes, like I mentioned, it might take more like 5 hours, but 3.5-4 is about the fastest I can do it.

Here's the thing. You can be the kind of brewer who is a whirlwind of activity for that 4 hours or you can relax and enjoy a nice day. I tend to be the whirlwind kind of guy, but I need to keep the time commitment down in order to keep SWIMBO happy. We have 3 kids 6 and under who need attention on the weekends. Once they grow up and are more self-entertaining I will likely stretch out brewdays a bit.

uwjester said:

I need to keep the time commitment down in order to keep SWIMBO happy. We have 3 kids 6 and under who need attention on the weekends. Once they grow up and are more self-entertaining I will likely stretch out brewdays a bit.

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+1

I have three kids ages 7 and under. Unless it's some special gathering-type brewing event with friends, I NEVER brew in the daylight. I wait until they go to bed, then I roll out to the garage and get started. I have my sleeves rolled up in the brewery before 9pm I'm in bed by 1am.

I don't feel like I am a whirlwind, though. I still have plenty of time to relax during the mash and boil.

mhermetz said:

Holy Raving Apples Batman!

.... you just reminded me. I have a case of 22oz bottles of Apfelwein that was made last year in January! Cripes... I have to dig those out of my workroom. It's going to be glorious.

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I'm just a little jealous. HOWEVER - we have just bottled a batch and but another one in the better bottle only to find out SWMBO is carrying a future brewing assistant so I figure there will be some Apfelwein with a really good age on it in our future.