Big brewday this weekend big as in a Russian Imperial Stout, anything I need to know?

I will be brewing my 6th AG this weekend and I think I have got the mashing and sparging down pretty well. I have just not done such a big beer before. Here is the recipe I will be doing, pretty much the Stone RIS clone from BYO:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Stone Russion Imperial Stout
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer:
Style: Russian Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.33 gal
Estimated OG: 1.101 SG
Estimated Color: 53.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 90.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
16.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.01 %
2.00 lb Amber Malt (50.0 SRM) Grain 10.13 %
1.25 lb Roasted Barley (500.0 SRM) Grain 6.33 %
0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.53 %
1.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (90 min) (First Wort HopHops 38.4 IBU
1.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (90 min) Hops 52.4 IBU
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 19.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 24.69 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F


I didn't have Warrior hops, so I am subing Magnum and I think I will do a ounce FWH and 1.5 when the boil starts for the heck of it.

My main concern is if I should anticipate hitting the same rough efficiency as I have with lower gravity beers (from 1.053 - 1.078) has been my range.

Also, I don't know why the article suggests using WLP002, but I am still using it because this has been planned for a while and it is on the stir plate working away right now.

As you see above the yeast won't get the FG down that low even with a 3000ml starter.

Can I pitch some fresh yeast when fermentation begins to slow to see if the gravity will go lower with this beer?

Couple things I feel like putting on the table. I don't want to "suggest" them, because some people might feel differently.

With a RIS i've got on hand, i did two things out of the ordinary:

1) Oxygenated a second time no more than 24hours after initial pitching. This helps the yeast get oxygen in a thick-ass wort. Worked really well for me and I hit the expected attenuation with a huge OG.

2) Use a secondary. The actual transferring to a secondary vessel will introduce a little oxidation, giving a sherry-flavor. Of course if you're not looking for this, make sure to not introduce any oxygen or forego secondary-ing alltogether.

I took a 10% hit when I did my first beer over 1.100. Average 78% and ended up with a 68% at 1.114 OG.

I shot for 65%.

cactusgarrett said:

Couple things I feel like putting on the table. I don't want to "suggest" them, because some people might feel differently.

With a RIS i've got on hand, i did two things out of the ordinary:

1) Oxygenated a second time no more than 24hours after initial pitching. This helps the yeast get oxygen in a thick-ass wort. Worked really well for me and I hit the expected attenuation with a huge OG.

2) Use a secondary. The actual transferring to a secondary vessel will introduce a little oxidation, giving a sherry-flavor. Of course if you're not looking for this, make sure to not introduce any oxygen or forego secondary-ing alltogether.

Click to expand...

I have not got a oxygen setup yet and not sure if I will, this is also my first starter that I have ever done. I am still really new to all this stuff. I feel like I get quite a bit of oxygen into the wort during the cool down process.

What about using a turkey baster and squeezing the air out of it while submerged in the wort. I know this is not as much oxygen as pure o2, but would it help?

+2 on expecting a lower efficiency. I would have several pounds of DME on hand and measure the SG of your wort pre-boil and adjust as needed. This will maintain the balance of the recipe.

I would do whatever you can to aerate the wort - a big beer needs a lot of dissolved O2 for the yeast to grow as healthily as possible and then ferment.

GT

1. Expect a lower efficiency
2. Make a HUGE starter
3. Aeration is crucial; use the IC to froth up the wort BM-style.

flyangler18 said:

1. Expect a lower efficiency
2. Make a HUGE starter
3. Aeration is crucial; use the IC to froth up the wort BM-style.

Click to expand...

1. I was north of 80% on my last brew, I will set this one for 75%
2. I am thinking 3000ml, I actually have about a 1900ml finishing up right now and was thinking of pitching that and doing another 1500ml to pitch a few days into the fermentation. Does this sound crazy or should I just step up what I have now?
3. I use my IC by grabbing the cold side and bobbing it in and out of the wort creating bubbles and little splashes. Is this something similar to the "BM-style"?

Thanks for your help

I'm actually planning on brewing this soon as well. I'm brewing Stone's pale this weekend for a friend and am planning on racking thr RIS directly onto the cake from that since its the same yeast. I use a pump for aeration, so no issue there. Before readingt his, I was plannin on a 8-10% drop in efficiency. Let us know how yours turns out!

humann_brewing said:

1. I was north of 80% on my last brew, I will set this one for 75%

Click to expand...

I'd set it for 70% just to be safe; I usually see a 10% drop for the big honkin' barleywines and RISs.

2. I am thinking 3000ml, I actually have about a 1900ml finishing up right now and was thinking of pitching that and doing another 1500ml to pitch a few days into the fermentation. Does this sound crazy or should I just step up what I have now?

Click to expand...

If you have enough time, crash the starter to drop the yeast and decant the starter beer and add fresh wort.

3. I use my IC by grabbing the cold side and bobbing it in and out of the wort creating bubbles and little splashes. Is this something similar to the "BM-style"?

Click to expand...

Close. I can't seem to find the picture where BierMuncher posted it, but churn that wort with the IC as vigorously as you can. You can get some serious frothing action. Another simple aeration aid is a Venturi tube, discussed here.

I don't have an oxygen setup either. My first round of oxygenation (typically my only one) comes from the transfer from the kettle to the carboy through a collander in a funnel. Run the wort from 2 feet and you get a nice frothy mess.

For the second aeration after fermentation has started, Like Got Trub? mentioned, do whatever you can. Pop the airlock and swirl, blow slightly into the opening, anything.

A paperclip tip of olive oil will make your beer really, really happy. This thread will introduce you to the idea and hopefully convince you to try it. All I know is that I've never seen a more vivacious fermentation than my brews with olive oil.

I have done several 'big' beers, and yeah, efficiency suffers a bit, but you can make up most of it with a little more sparge water and a 90 minute boil. I really do not think you need to pitch twice, a single pitch of a nice healthy starter will do fine. Granted, I have never used 002... Hopefully you know the yeast. I think if you pitched a second batch of yeast into a high alcohol environment, they would just head straight for the bottom. Any time I get above 1.09, I make a small batch and pitch on the cake.

For adding a good amount of O2 you can try what I do during transfer from kettle to fermenter....assuming you have an auto-siphon.

Basically, I bring the tip of the siphon to the wort line in the kettle. Begin pumping with the tip half in, half out. It gets very frothy in the auto-siphon as it transfers.

It's worked well for me. Good luck.

&#8220;Begin pumping with the tip half in, half out&#8220;<--hahaha

flyangler18 said:

I'd set it for 70% just to be safe; I usually see a 10% drop for the big honkin' barleywines and RISs.



If you have enough time, crash the starter to drop the yeast and decant the starter beer and add fresh wort.



Close. I can't seem to find the picture where BierMuncher posted it, but churn that wort with the IC as vigorously as you can. You can get some serious frothing action. Another simple aeration aid is a Venturi tube, discussed here.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I crash cooled the finished starter last night and made up another batch this morning and pitched it onto the yeast and set it on the stir plate.

I will probably pitch it on Sunday, but brew tomorrow. There was a lot of yeast from the first starter, there should be plenty for this beer, I just hope it gets in the lower 20s for the final gravity.

If you want to get out some of those left over sugars (ie efficiency drop of 10+%), make a second beer from the mash, aka partigyle.

<edit>Ha! I see you already created another thread asking about partigyle.</edit>

Well I am brewing this right now, almost done. I came in low on my pre-boil gravity, but I also had a extra 1.25 quarts of wort that I can burn off.

I was at 1.071 for pre-boil with 7.6 Gallons.

The brew session went well for the most part. Although, up to this point I have always done a double batch sparge, but with this time around with all the volume I got on emptying the Mash the first time, I just added the amount I needed to boil still and only did 1 sparge.

This may have hurt my efficiency a bit because the temp only got up to 162, I usually try to get as close to 170 without going over usually.

When I was all said and done, I had a OG of 1.095 and a brewhouse efficiency of 75%, so it looks like the 10% drop is right on target, I usually get 85% with all my other brews.

P.S. I posted some pictures in the photo forum too.

So I just used my new refractor to check where this beer is at after 2 weeks and it said 11.5 brix and using the refractor tool in beersmith with a starting gravity of 1.095 that is converted to 1.016

I will have to double check this with the hydrometer, but holy crap.

This was also with WLP002 which I was worried about not attenuating that well.

I tried to get it to do its best by mashing at 149 for 75 minutes and then I had about a 3.5-4 liter starter made.

yeah......if you used a refractometer to check FG, it will be off. They are only good for SG. The alcohol throws it off.
Check with a hydrometer.

Couevas said:

yeah......if you used a refractometer to check FG, it will be off. They are only good for SG. The alcohol throws it off.
Check with a hydrometer.

Click to expand...

That is true, but that is why you throw the numbers into a calulation like morebeer has in the excel sheet or beersmith has built in. If you calibrate it with some distilled water and against a hydrometer check, you should be pretty on. I checked it against another brew I kegged earlier and it was .003 off, so at worst this may be at 1.020 still. I will check though.

Well, I was the worst case, ended up being 1.020, but for a yeast that has attenuation average of 66.5% (WLP002) I got 78.9% out of it. I mashed at 149* F and had a OG of 1.095 to 1.020, today is 4 weeks, I think I will let it sit for a while longer before I bottle though.

So this coming weekend will be 7 weeks for my RIS in the primary. It has been at it's final gravity for quite a while.

I will be bottling this and am just wondering if enough time in the primary has passed? Can't the conditioning phase continue in the bottle?

I'd go ahead and bottle and wait until November to try the first one.

humann_brewing said:

1. I was north of 80% on my last brew, I will set this one for 75%
2. I am thinking 3000ml, I actually have about a 1900ml finishing up right now and was thinking of pitching that and doing another 1500ml to pitch a few days into the fermentation. Does this sound crazy or should I just step up what I have now?
3. I use my IC by grabbing the cold side and bobbing it in and out of the wort creating bubbles and little splashes. Is this something similar to the "BM-style"?

Thanks for your help

Click to expand...

I usually hit 90%+ but with our RIS we hit 68% on the nose. You might want to drop back a bit more and add more grain.

I'd make a massive starter and then start a second starter just in case you need to re-pitch to get it going should it stall. I'll pull a sample of ours again and let you know how it comes out. You can follow our RIS in the recipe section here.

Hit it with o2 if you can for a good long time.

p4ck37p1mp said:

I usually hit 90%+ but with our RIS we hit 68% on the nose. You might want to drop back a bit more and add more grain.

I'd make a massive starter and then start a second starter just in case you need to re-pitch to get it going should it stall. I'll pull a sample of ours again and let you know how it comes out. You can follow our RIS in the recipe section here.

Hit it with o2 if you can for a good long time.

Click to expand...

I actually brewed this about 7 weeks ago and got 75% efficiency, but was about 10-12% lower that my other brews so you definatley loose some efficiency. I also used WLP002 as well and went from 1.095 to 1.020 or 78% attenuation which is pretty good for this yeast, but I also mashed at 149* and had a large starter.