Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Batch Sparge Strike Temperature

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-30-2009, 06:40 PM   #1
ipscman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oakland, OR, Oregon
Posts: 108
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default Batch Sparge Strike Temperature

I just switched from fly sparging (average efficiency in the 80s) to batch and got a surprisingly low (63%) efficiency. I went through the list of items in the sticky and can't find the fault.

However, in Denny's excellent summary he says, "I use 185-190F sparge water, which gives me a grain bed temp. of 165-168F." I thought with batch sparge you just heat the strike water to 168, which is what I did right after the first run-off. I didn't measure the temp of the grain bed after adding it.

Q 1: Is that a likely source of my low efficiency?

Q2: If I understand Denny correctly (setting a higher strike temperature to get the entire GRAIN bed to 168) then do I use the strike temp feature in Beersmith and use the hot grain temp after first runnings to find the proper strike temperature to get the grain bed to 168 before the second/batch sparge?

Major thanks.

__________________
ipscman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 06:49 PM   #2
McKBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
McKBrew's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hayden, Idaho
Posts: 8,292
Liked 30 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Heating the water for the second infusion to 185-190 is about dead on. I started monitoring the head of my grain bed after the first runnings were done, because I was doing things the same as you. I've noticed on average about 5% better efficiency based on that alone.

You could use beer smith for the calculations or just wing it and aim for 190 degree water everytime. Unless you are mashing very hot (around 160) you shouldn't have any issues with getting the grainbed over 170. I normally mash between 151-155 and with 190 degree water have not had issues with getting the bed too hot.

Any reason why you switched from fly sparging? I'm guessing time, as that would be the only reason why I'd think you would want to change from a proven method.

__________________

Make Beer, Not War.

McKBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 06:50 PM   #3
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 21,913
Liked 942 Times on 628 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

There's a terminology misunderstanding in the OP. Strike temp, in my mind, is the temp of the water when you dough in. IOW, sparge water is not called "strike". Use the sparge water temp of 185F to raise the grainbed temp up into the mid to high 160's after you've done your rest and first runnings.

Yes, low sparge temps will kill efficiency pretty quick but it can also a crush/technique thing.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 07:09 PM   #4
ipscman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oakland, OR, Oregon
Posts: 108
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Major thanks men. I switched only because I could and wanted to test the faster process. Try everything right?

Using the Beersmith strike temp calculator I don't get the suggested 185 degree batch temp unless I put the grain temp after first running as being 90 degrees. I had no idea the grain bed could be that cool after draining. Wow. I will try 185 next time and see what happens. I trust experienced humans over the software, particularly if I've misdirected it. ;-)

P.S. I use a BarleyCrusher set at factory 39 thousand - same as I used when fly sparging so I doubt that is the issue?

__________________

Last edited by ipscman; 01-30-2009 at 07:22 PM.
ipscman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 07:11 PM   #5
BierMuncher
...My Junk is Ugly...
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BierMuncher's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 12,160
Liked 578 Times on 340 Posts
Likes Given: 210

Default

Bobby's right. You're mixing up strike temps with sparge temps.

Batch Sparging:
The act of rinsing your mashed grains with batches of hot water, once your wort has drained. This can be repeated a number of times depending on the brewers preference.

Strike Temp:
The temperature of the water before you mix it in with your dry grains.

Doughing in:
The act of adding your strike water with dried grains in order to "mash".

Mash temp:
The resting temperature of your mash bed after doughing in. This is where achieving the target temp is critical. Usually between 149 and 159, depending on the recipe and the desired malt profile. In my experience, heating strike water for 5-gallon batches about 15 degrees over my target mash temp was a reliable method. For 10 gallon batches I would add 20 degrees to my target temp…then add 5 more degrees.

Sparge water:
The water you will heat and then add to your grain bed after the wort has been drained in order to rinse additional sugars from the spent grains. This water is hotter than the strike water, ranging from 170-190, depending on the brewers preference. This hotter water insures a thorough rinse of the soluble sugars.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that higher efficiency is achieved by moving from a batch sparge process to a fly sparge process. I picked up 8-9 points by moving to fly sparging. However, this does not mean that my brewshop will give me better efficiency doing a fly sparge than another brewer who is batch sparging. I know for a fact that Bobby consistently hits the 80’s with his batch sparging. I on the other hand have resolved myself to dealing with 78%.

BierMuncher is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 07:16 PM   #6
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,261
Liked 429 Times on 324 Posts
Likes Given: 513

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipscman View Post
I just switched from fly sparging (average efficiency in the 80s) to batch and got a surprisingly low (63%) efficiency. I went through the list of items in the sticky and can't find the fault.

However, in Denny's excellent summary he says, "I use 185-190F sparge water, which gives me a grain bed temp. of 165-168F." I thought with batch sparge you just heat the strike water to 168, which is what I did right after the first run-off. I didn't measure the temp of the grain bed after adding it.

Q 1: Is that a likely source of my low efficiency?

Q2: If I understand Denny correctly (setting a higher strike temperature to get the entire GRAIN bed to 168) then do I use the strike temp feature in Beersmith and use the hot grain temp after first runnings to find the proper strike temperature to get the grain bed to 168 before the second/batch sparge?

Major thanks.
I was initially kinda thrown by your use of the term "strike water". I guess that what I call the initial mash in water...dunno if that's strictly true or not, though. But if you're talking about water after that initial infusion, what you want to do is to get your grain bed up to about 168, and it takes water hotter than 168 to do that. Now, I seldom hit that 168, but getting into the ballpark reduces wort viscosity and promotes a better runoff. But it's not gonna make a world of difference to your efficiency. I'd say I've seen a maybe 1-2 point gain myself. Others have reported more. Also, I've never found any brewing software that would accurately calculate infusion temps for a cooler. IME, they always turn out low. The 185-190 I use was reached by trial and error. I suggest you start with water that's about 180. Add that and measure the temp. You'll likely be below 168, so take note of where the temp lands and heat it that much more the next time.
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
SCHombrew Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-27-2010, 05:55 PM   #7
ChemEMc
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond
Posts: 123
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Though this is based on one trial so far, for many batches i was getting really low efficiency (60-65) and I was using sparge water only heated to 168 (new to all grain, misunderstood that the whole thing should get up to 168). My last batch I heated my sparge water to ~175 and increased the sparge volume about a gallon more then beersmith suggested and my efficiency jumped to ~75% and hit my OG dead on for the first time. No other major changes were made (same crush, equipment, etc). Though this may be an anomaly or simply me getting better with all grain, i think the sparge temp increase together with the larger boil volume did it. Hard to say which helped more though.

__________________
ChemEMc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-27-2010, 08:51 PM   #8
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,261
Liked 429 Times on 324 Posts
Likes Given: 513

Default

I think it's due to the larger water volume rather then the temp increase. My own experience is that using a higher water temp does not increase my efficiency. However, running more water through the grain will always increase efficiency.

__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-27-2010, 09:11 PM   #9
ajf
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ajf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 4,643
Liked 99 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Did you stir the sparge water in really well with each batch?
With fly sparging, the sugars are rinsed out of the grain by gently percolating through the grain bed. With batch sparging, it is mainly the stirring of the water with the grains that gets the sugars out.

-a.

__________________

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

ajf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2010, 06:54 PM   #10
jldc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jldc's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 662
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

I use Denny's double batch sparge technique exactly as he described and routinely get efficiencies from 82-84%. I use hot sparge water to raise the grain bed temp, although I have read that it doesn't really matter. One day, I might try sparging with colder water just for the hell of it.

I am a novice for sure, but it seems that as long as the residual sugar in the grain after the first runnings is easily dissolved in the water, the temp shouldn't matter much. That said, it's easy to head the sparge water during the mash, and hot water comes to a boil quicker, so you save time in the end.

__________________
jldc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Batch sparge temperature without a mash-out stoutaholic All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 02-24-2013 03:56 PM
Raising GrainBed temperature during batch sparge aredling All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 06-14-2010 07:58 PM
Strike and Sparge water? redraider629 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 03-29-2009 02:03 AM
Batch Sparge Temperature TheBug All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 03-11-2009 03:01 AM
More strike than sparge water... why? Ó Flannagáin All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 04-19-2007 02:00 PM