Apa

Hey, I brewed a pale 31 clone but it turned out too bitter. Apart from a 15 g 60 min addition of fuggels I did 60g at 10 min and 60g at flame out. Also I try hopped with 60 g for 4 days. Used chinook cascade and centennial.

I seem to get too many IBUs from my late and dry hope additions.

Any suggestions? Cheers

Are you sure it's bitter? From those hop additions, I'd guess "aromatic" is the adjective you are meaning to use.

What was your batch size? You've listed over 6 oz of aromatic additions, so it is going to be very aromatic.

batch size? The 10M hops would have added *some* bitterness but not much. Probably tasting hop flavor, which isn't necessarily bitterness.

Yes, batch size. If this was a 1 gallon batch, that hop schedule would be way out of whack.

It's a 5 gallon batch. If its not the hops then might it be the water profile? After boil I do let the wort sit for 15 mins to settle before I run it through my counter flow chiller.

ianj84 said:

It's a 5 gallon batch. If its not the hops then might it be the water profile? After boil I do let the wort sit for 15 mins to settle before I run it through my counter flow chiller.

Click to expand...

Is the beer conditioned? Kegged, bottled?

Kegged

Kegged it like 4 days ago. Had a few pints last night. Tasted like a real nice ipa but not what I wanted.

Well, 4 days in the keg seems a little soon to be drinking a beer of that style. It could probably do with some time conditioning, which might mellow out the flavor that you think is too much.

Ok cool. Thanks

ianj84 said:

Hey, I brewed a pale 31 clone but it turned out too bitter. Apart from a 15 g 60 min addition of fuggels I did 60g at 10 min and 60g at flame out. Also I try hopped with 60 g for 4 days. Used chinook cascade and centennial.

I seem to get too many IBUs from my late and dry hope additions.

Any suggestions? Cheers

Click to expand...

Not a lot of IBU are coming from flameout additions, and certainly none from dry hopping since there's no boil. What did you dry hop with?

Like I read on another thread where the poster hugely overreacted and took it like a total insult on himself and all his future progeny: "Maybe your taste buds need to man up son!"

Ha, I love bitter beers its just not what I was going for.

If you love bitters in the meaning of ESBs, those american hops are not gonna cut it.

Maybe you just didn't like the mix. At least, now you know...

It could be the hops you used. I tend to notice more of a hop bite with high alpha hops, especially those with high cohumulone levels. Every hop has a different profile, a different mix of acids and oils that contribute to it's bittering, flavor and aroma characteristics.

What kind of beer (a commercial example perhaps) did you have in mind when brewing this beer?

Pale 31

I think it might be because I put too many hops in at the end and also I let the wort sit for 15 mins to settle before I run it through counter flow chiller into the fermenter. So my 10 min addition is actually a 25 min addition and my 0 min addition is a 15 min addition. Does that sound like the problem?

The fact that it's not boiling anymore will greatly reduce the polymerization of the alpha acids, therefore reducing the IBU generation. But of course, it can't be ignored.

I use a plate chiller with a pump and I always recirculate through the plate chiller into the kettle at first, reducing temps to near 140 F in a matter of minutes in the kettle. This effectively stops the hops.

Some people also like to let it sit to give a chance to flame out additions....

there is a bit of discussion in the another thread about the contributions of IBUs from flameout additions, you def could be noticing higher IBU as a result of flameout additions and a post boil hopstand

So you make your flame out addition and then recirculate straight away to drop temp?
Does this work for you? You get flavour without bitterness?

I do let it sit 3-4 minutes to benefit a little more from this addition, so I guess I do get a little bitterness, but if you were to drop temp RIGHT AWAY, no bitterness should come up because you need the boil to get IBUs...

Yeah cool. I'm going to brew the exact same beer this weekend and change my late hopping around to see if it makes a difference. Cheers

Also I just read on mr malty that some people do no bittering addition and only do a load of hops at 10 and 5. Anyone tried this? I want a massive hop flavour with a low smooth bitterness.

atreid said:

I do let it sit 3-4 minutes to benefit a little more from this addition, so I guess I do get a little bitterness, but if you were to drop temp RIGHT AWAY, no bitterness should come up because you need the boil to get IBUs...

Click to expand...

I believe the threshold is more like 180°/190° that the alpha acids can still be isomerized

this becomes a negligible amount if you are quickly chilling since the temps will drop below that point pretty quickly

there doesn't seem to be an exact formula for how much bitterness is extracted during a hop stand but the easiest way to compensate would be to reduce bittering additions

the APA i plan on brewing this weekend will be FWH and then additions at flameout (30min stand) and then another addition and 30min stand after cooling to below 160° or so

there is a lengthy thread in the General Techniques subforum discussing it much further and I believe BYO has an article about it in the most recent issue

Seaech for a process called "Hop Bursting". The idea is to get as many IBUs using a lot more hops in the 0-10 time frame. It's supposed to give a more "mellow" bitterness for a same IBU level if that makes sense. I tried it once and could not taste the difference for the life of me. and with all those wasted hops, I think I'll stick with the classic method.

I guess the question is more about the RATE of polymerization than whether or not it's happening.

What's promising about your APA plan is that it might not give a lot of IBU while letting you benefit from a strong INFUSION effect.

ianj84 said:

I think it might be because I put too many hops in at the end and also I let the wort sit for 15 mins to settle before I run it through counter flow chiller into the fermenter. So my 10 min addition is actually a 25 min addition and my 0 min addition is a 15 min addition. Does that sound like the problem?

Click to expand...

BINGO. Temps that linger near boiling will break down hop crystals. You probably got more IBU's AND more flavor from the hops than you intended.

As for hop-bursting, I've done a few and they're great. I do 30-0 minute additions in heavy quantities to get IBU's AND flavor/aroma. Essentially you are upping the flavor/aroma hops, but since they're also giving you some IBU's, you cut out some earlier, bittering-only additions.

Cool, thanks for the info

If it hasn't mellowed after a few weeks check your water profile. High calcium, bicarbonate and sulfate levels can accentuate bitterness. Most municipal waters are pretty soft though.

On a side note I always first wort hop and get a smooth bitterness that way. I used 6 oz. in an apa I brewed with 3 of them as a FWH addition. Calculated out to about 33 IBUs.