Keg will NOT carbonate - no matter what!

I really hate to post this thread, but I'm utterly confused.

I kegged 3.5 gallons of a Belgian Pale Ale last month. I'll normally hook it up to ~30 psi for a day or so, then kick it down to ~12-15 depending on the style for another week or two.

After about a week, I took a sample. Not very much carbonation. No problem, I'll let it sit another week. After that week, still nothing to speak of. I cranked it up to 20 PSI. A few days later, no remarkable change. Crank up to 30. Let it sit there for 2 weeks, sampled and STILL no carbonation!!! I knew something wasn't right after this. I've left a beer on high carbonation for 1 day too long and ended up with an over carbonated foamy mess.

Things that could have gone wrong (but didn't, so dont ask!)

-no leaks. Tested everywhere with soapy water. Tested all the posts and lid. The keg holds pressure. If there was a leak, I'd be well out of CO2 by now.

-gas is hooked up to appropriate post

-temp is around 40F



Now I'm noticing that if I pour a glass, a lot of very tiny bubbles start to form. If I pour more violently, I can get it to make a head like a beer on Nitrogen. Is it possible the place sold me beer gas instead of CO2? That would explain the very low carbonation, extremely small bubbles and silky head. I called the place I got it filled (a local flower shop) and they were completely clueless as to any difference between beer gas and CO2.

Maybe I should just give up, empty the damn tank and take it somewhere else? I was hoping to use them because they fill rather than exchange.

Is the valve after the gauge open?

Two weeks at 30 PSI would result in a very overcarbonated beer.

Connect the gas, dial it up to 12 psi, make sure the valve under the gauges is open, then pull on the relief valve on the keg. This will tell you if you are getting any pressure there.

how long does it take you to pour a glass? not to insinuate a lack of experience in kegging, but are you SURE you are not dispensing too fast and knocking CO2 out of solution?
are you sure your dip tube and poppets are unobstructed so the keg system is flowing normally?
tap wide open?

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll admit I'm not them most experienced with kegging. I've had my setup for about a year, but have never had this problem.

Ed - yes, the valve under the guage is open. I know this because 1- If I dial up the pressure, I can hear more CO2 going into the keg and 2 - if I pull on the pressure release, more CO2 will flow into the keg.

Malkore - valid question. When I'm testing for carbonation, I'll usually shut off the valve and release most of the pressure in the keg so it pours very gently. Probably equal to what a 5 psi pour would be like. When I couldn't get it carbonated, I even tried pouring with about 15 PSI to try and knock out what carbonation was in there. I expected a glass full of foam. What I got was a barely carbonated pour with a ton of tiny bubbles.

Since I tried everything under the sun, I decided to just give up and exchange the tank at Airgas. They aren't idiots (hopefully), so I know I have CO2. Its been sitting on 20 PSI from the new tank since about noon. Hopefully that will solve the issue.

No idea if this may be related...
Long ago, I tried to carb a 2 liter bottle with a "carbonator" cap / portable charger and used an air gun co2 cartridge.

The bottle pressurized but the co2 was never absorbed into the beer.
Then I noticed a sheen on the surface and realized there was oil in the co2 cartridge. So my theory is that the oil made a barrier between the beer and the co2 and prevented absorption.

So, long story short... any change there is something floating on the surface of your beer preventing the co2 from being absorbed?

Hmm, I couldn't say definitively, but I forgot to mention above that I did try rolling the keg while hooked up to the CO2 to try to force some more into the beer. That didn't do anything either.

I'm beginning to think that whatever was in that tank just wasn't CO2. They told me explicitly that they fill CO2. Its a flower/decoration place so who knows, maybe they gave me helium.

I guess I'll know in a little while since I got a new tank from Airgas.

Edcculus said:

Hmm, I couldn't say definitively, but I forgot to mention above that I did try rolling the keg while hooked up to the CO2 to try to force some more into the beer. That didn't do anything either.

I'm beginning to think that whatever was in that tank just wasn't CO2. They told me explicitly that they fill CO2. Its a flower/decoration place so who knows, maybe they gave me helium.

I guess I'll know in a little while since I got a new tank from Airgas.

Click to expand...

Haha, my guess would be that they gave you helium and did not know the difference. Thats really funny though!

Edcculus said:

...
Its a flower/decoration place so who knows, maybe they gave me helium.

Click to expand...

The fact that the keg was floating in the air was not enough of a clue???

How awesome would it be if the helium did get absorbed into the beer, so that when you drank it you'd get all high pitched helium-voiced. haha

Can you carb any other kegs? I think you should systematically isolate every place between the gas and the faucet. Is it the tank? Is it the regulator? Is it the valves? Is it the lines? And so on.

The Helium thing would be funny.

Eric

Edcculus said:

Hmm, I couldn't say definitively, but I forgot to mention above that I did try rolling the keg while hooked up to the CO2 to try to force some more into the beer. That didn't do anything either.

I'm beginning to think that whatever was in that tank just wasn't CO2. They told me explicitly that they fill CO2. Its a flower/decoration place so who knows, maybe they gave me helium.

I guess I'll know in a little while since I got a new tank from Airgas.

Click to expand...

Sounds like the flower company doesn't know the difference between helium and CO2. I can't think of why a flower company would have a tank of CO2 kicking around...anybody know?

Instead of asking/confirming with them that is it CO2, maybe ask them what they use it for. If they say something like: "To make balloons float, duh" then you have your answer.

Or carbonate with the airgas tank.

Yea, not sure why they have it. I actually found about it from my clubs forum as one of the only places in town to get a tank filled. Multiple people posted about having their tanks filled there and it being ~10. I did think it was kind of weird because they charged me $20.


I can't find ANYWHERE to get 5lbs of CO2 for less than $20! If that flower place is actually cheaper and they gave me helium by accident, I'm not really sure if I'll be going back. Airgas charged me $25 to exchange the tank. Thats outrageous, but I needed the CO2.

Sounds like they gave you the wrong gas. Just an assumption though. Does nitro or helium have a distinct smell by chance?

Fill a balloon with the gas in the tank and see if it floats away. CO2 is heavier than air so the ballon would fall to the ground........ right?

If it is helium, how will that effect the beer? Is it still possible to consume the brew or not? I would do some googling to make sure.

Salute!

Does the beer float up out of the glass when you pour? haha I know original, another helium joke, but it's not everyday you get a chance to mkae one around here

You had pressure in the keg for multiple weeks. It was either overcarbed (this gets confused with not carbed a lot because the co2 gets knocked out of solution so fast, but I believe usually comes with foaming) or you got the wrong gas.

If you drink the beer, does the pitch of your voice go up?

Couldn't resist...

+1 on the balloon. Sure sign right there...

This thread makes me smile!

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html

Thought this was pretty interesting. Solubility curves of different gases in water (not the same as beer but close enough). Moral of the story He is much less soluble in water than CO2 and actually fairly close to that of Nitrogen

I wonder what Helium carbonated beer tastes like

edit: I don't think it would even be called carbonation since I assume carbonation refers to dissolving of Carbon Dioxide. Heliumation?

Flat, obviously.

I'd call the flower company and see if they did fill it with helium. Maybe they'll give you your next refill for free. Just make sure it's CO2.

Another aside, I filled a 5# and a 10# tank the same day.

#10 Tank, $11.75
#5 Tank, $11.25

The gas is cheap, it's the labor and HazMat fees that jack up the price.

B

I exchanged the tank, so unfortunately I can't prove it was helium. There is no way in hell that stuff was CO2 though. I hooked up the new tank yesterday afternoon and set it to 30PSI (I've been waiting long enough to drink this beer). Its perfectly carbonated now.

If it was helium, I don't think enough really got into the beer to really cause problems. It was a 3.5 gallon batch, and I probably wasted more than half of it by now taking samples for the past few weeks.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Lesson of the thread - helium (if it was that) won't carbonate beer!

Another aside - I know helium is lighter than air. Is the gas itself lighter in weight than CO2? I know that sounds dumb, but when they filled the tank at the flower place, I remember getting it back and thinking it felt a lot lighter than previous times I had it filled. I guess what I'm trying to say is - would a 5lb tank filled with helium weigh less than a 5lb tank filled with CO2?.

Edcculus said:

would a 5lb tank filled with helium weigh less than a 5lb tank filled with CO2?.

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I'd think they would weigh the same. Kind of like the 5lbs of feathers vs 5lbs of rocks argument. Definitely an interesting situation you were in. I've learned another question to ask myself if something isn't right in my kegging system.

If they filled by weight, they would both weigh 5lbs. If filled by pressure they would be different

If it's CO2 it will be liquid in the tank and you should/may be able to feel it "slosh" when you invert the tank. Not so with helium, argon, nitrogen, air, etc.