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Old 05-19-2009, 07:10 PM   #21
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Ravvy I think if we could talk over a few homebrews we probably could come to agreement. I think we agree on more than you think. I have a different process and it works for me. I can go form grain to glass in about a month and so do many of the pros producing the same kinds of beer.

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Old 05-19-2009, 07:35 PM   #22
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Ravvy I think if we could talk over a few homebrews we probably could come to agreement. I think we agree on more than you think. I have a different process and it works for me. I can go form grain to glass in about a month and so do many of the pros producing the same kinds of beer.
Actually I agree....I've learned quite a lot of interesting stuff from you, over the last few months...The more I've read by you, the more I have come to respect you.

I've even mentioned in other threads about your process

I've been meaning to pm you and suggest you actually put together a detailed tutorial about some of the things you do...especially the adding yeast, and krausening, things like that....(with pics)

My issue only is that the new brewers (and the lurkers) who read these discussions don't understand that you are using specific and different methods then they (and myself) are using.

Most of the brewers on here (who don't keg) use the "wait til fermentation is complete, then add x amount of sugar added (in some way) at bottling time" method....and with that method, it is very very difficult to get an average gravity( let's say 1.060 and above) beer carbed and conditioned in under three weeks if the temp is below 70 degrees. Like I've said all winter, I couldn't get a beer to carb in 5 weeks to save my life in my loft.....

It's quite different from some of the things that you do, which are a bit more specific and advanced than these first time batches where they jump the gun and start a thread like this.....

And I honestly think that needs to be clarified.....because a lot of people will look at what you write and say "gee how come my beer isn't ready in a month, something must be wrong with it."

Not realizing that in order to get your beer ready in a month, you did very specific things that they didn't do with their batch.

These new brewers are brewing a kit (usually with badly written instructions) or a recipe, and then in their impatience cracking them open early, and panicking.....

So I just think that it confuses them a bit.....not that there's anythign wrong with your methods...it's just that the new brewers are not using the same methods as you are.

Back to the OP, generally speaking kit manufacturers, especially kit an kilo manufacturers, are concerned with selling more and more kits NOT with the brewer making the best beer possible. They know that if they say in the instructions to wait, they may loose some people to hobbies that have more instant gratification.

They also know that the time that a homebrewer will remain buying kits is relatively short...they know that after a few kits, the brewer will either give up, start brewing extract batches from recipes in books and places like this, formulate their own recipes, or go all grain...so they want to sell as many kits as possible to the new brewer before he moves on to bigger and better things.

So they know that even their beer will taste better if you leave it longer...but they know that in the time you wait you will be reading and learning and be less likely to buy another kit...They can sell three or four kits to you if you follow their directions in the same time frame that listening to us and waiting a month and bottle conditioning for another 3-4 weeks.

Anyway the biggest take home message, that I preach (here anyway) over and over and over is simple;

The point to remember is that if it is under three weeks and your beer isn't carbed or tastes funny to you, there is nothing wrong with the beer, just the brewer ...And leaving it alone for a week or more, will more than likely be the cure....under carbed or funky tasting beer in the first 3-8 weeks or so, especially if it is high grav, or your ambient temps are below 60, is perfectly normal, and nothing to worry about.

(Conroe, I hope someday we get together over a few pints of our works!!!!)
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Conroe View Post
Ravvy I think if we could talk over a few homebrews we probably could come to agreement. I think we agree on more than you think. I have a different process and it works for me. I can go form grain to glass in about a month and so do many of the pros producing the same kinds of beer.
I am going to clarify my position as well, even though Revvy may have already said it in a 'round about way.
I am not saying that you don't know green beer nor that your process doesn't work for you. My whole stance that I may not have stated clearly in my replies above is this: Even though you have developed a process that works for YOU, I personally don't think it is proper to recommend to the newer/less experienced brewers. It is too likely that they won't be getting the results that you have seen and may become discouraged because it doesn't taste as good as they were expecting.
See what I mean? Recommending your technique and short conditioning time would be like recommending Kai's or Mensmaschine's (sp) water chemistry adjustment techniques. It has nothing to do with whether it works or not, but is the process understandable for people just learning.
DAMN! These tangents are making me dizzy.
Let's just hug and sing a chorus of "Kumbaya".
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:00 PM   #24
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Hehehehe...

It's funny, I just went to the can at work and took the latest copy of Byo with me, and the featured Techniques section is on brewing high gravity beers, they define a high gravity beer as being greater than 1.061....

In all the batches I have brewed, I can count on half a hand the number of beers that were UNDER 1.060....I think my average is 1.070....

I'll refer to Lazy Llama's chart for reference on when they come into readiness.



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Old 05-19-2009, 10:11 PM   #25
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Ravvy, thanks, but I don't do all you mentioned. I've never krausened a batch. I don't think it has any real advantages over sugar and adding yeast. I seldom add yeast. I have bottled too early before and from experience I firmly believe in not bottling most beers before three weeks. When beer goes in to the bottle all unwanted flavors should be gone.

The one thing I know for certain is that temperature is the most important thing we can use manipulate yeast and beer. When I hear master brewers say that dry hopping three days yields all they want from the hops I know they are not keeping it in the low 60's. They must be taking advantage of temps higher than 70 too. The fact that these temps are easy for me to obtain is just dumb luck. I'm nothing more than a fast learning easily misunderstood beginner in a sea of novices.

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Old 03-24-2011, 01:18 AM   #26
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Thanks guys this was a nice write-up. Like was said earlier I read in books and also the recipe from my kit and they state that you can bottle in as early as a week and bottle for 2 weeks, I feel as was said here that they just want you do get a new batch going as quickly as possible. My first batch will be 2 weeks in the bottle this weekend and from what I read I will test a bottle to see how it is coming along but will not worry anyone with the stupid panicky questions everyone else always seems to post.

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Old 03-27-2011, 08:02 PM   #27
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Since this thread has already been necro'd, what the hell...

Yeah, pretty much reading this made me sure there's nothing wrong with my first batch (started last saturday, now transferred from the primary fermenter into another vessel) since it tastes okay, but feels quite flat (no siff Sherlock, eh?).

Anyway I'm wondering - I'm using 5l plastic flasks for the brewing (like this: https://picasaweb.google.com/gandalf...65369578832738). I'm wondering whether it's gonna carb at all in a bottle like this - I can't imagine much pressure getting built up in there. Obviously I've replaced the airlock with a proper cap. Has anyone successfully tried "conditioning" (priming, carbing, whatever) his beer in a bottle like that? I'm not planning to bottle it (it's only 2 litres anyway).

(Those pesky students who can't spare £10 for a pack of bottles, caps and a capper, eh?)

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Old 03-27-2011, 09:23 PM   #28
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Since this thread has already been necro'd, what the hell...

Yeah, pretty much reading this made me sure there's nothing wrong with my first batch (started last saturday, now transferred from the primary fermenter into another vessel) since it tastes okay, but feels quite flat (no siff Sherlock, eh?).

Anyway I'm wondering - I'm using 5l plastic flasks for the brewing (like this: https://picasaweb.google.com/gandalf...65369578832738). I'm wondering whether it's gonna carb at all in a bottle like this - I can't imagine much pressure getting built up in there. Obviously I've replaced the airlock with a proper cap. Has anyone successfully tried "conditioning" (priming, carbing, whatever) his beer in a bottle like that? I'm not planning to bottle it (it's only 2 litres anyway).

(Those pesky students who can't spare £10 for a pack of bottles, caps and a capper, eh?)
If you can make it seal, you had better believe it will carbonate in those bottles. You can expect the sides and bottom to be bulged out while it does so though. I sometimes use a half-liter plastic bottle to see if my brew will carb and after a week it will be so hard you cannot squeeze the sides in.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:15 PM   #29
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On another note I made a slight booboo when I kegged my first batch and left it in the fridge after popping it with CO2. It seems I am now lagering my non lager beer which is an American Porter. I of course, had to taste after a week and it is coming out real nice. Needs a little more time as the CO2 hasn't fully integrated in the beer but it does have a nice brown head. I think I should just leave it in the fridge at this point instead of taking it out....thoughts?

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Old 06-08-2011, 04:26 PM   #30
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Green is a vague term
Green, as a flavor descriptor, is a way to say the beer is bad when you can't bring yourself to admit that the beer is bad.

If you try to get specifics people will say acetaldehyde or something but if you need 4 weeks in the primary and 3 weeks in the bottle to get rid of that, you are doing something seriously wrong.

Fix the problem rather than just waiting longer and convincing yourself that is required.
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