bottl and keg - same batch

Has anyone tried bottling some of - and kegging some of - the same exact batch?

Out of curiosity, I’m considering bottling about 12 beers and kegging the rest of a 5-gallon batch so I can do a taste test and see the difference.

I’m just wondering if anyone else out there has ever done this and what was your results/preference.

As for preference, I’m talking strictly taste/mouth/nose etc. not convenience etc (there are plenty of discussion about that already)

Cheers fellas

I did this last time, I did bottle a 6 pack out of a 3.5 gallon batch using those carbonation tabs for the bottles, and kegged the rest.

For the method:
It was super easy. I just did the bottles first with my spring loaded bottle wand, somehow got that thing off with one hand while holding my autosiphon in the other to finish up racking to the keg. This was the trickiest part. But, doing the bottles first (followed recommendation from Don Osbourne on youtube) helped get the clearest beer in the bottles without worrying about disturbing the trub in my primary. ( I was worried about any trub getting in the bottles since it takes so damn long for them to clear anyway compared to kegging).

My results for this particular centennial/chinook IPA were... blah. It was fun to taste the difference, but I ended up dryhopping the hell out of it one more time in the keg, and the kegged beer turned out WAY better. Crystal clear, more hop aroma, and now I only started polishing off the 6pack when the keg kicked. Not to mention kegging leaves open more opportunities to screw with the beer more. On this beer it turned out too strong and too carmel / malt forward at first for a straight IPA, so I was able to water it down and dry hop it again in the keg leaving it more balanced in the end.

That is exactly what I did with my last batch. Used the hose off of the auto siphon, hooked up to the bottling wand, to fill 6 bottles. Pinched the hose, pulled the wand, and filled the keg.

I keg my batches and the bottle off of the keg.

I'll usually bottle a 12 pack or sometimes a case this way.

firerat said:

I keg my batches and the bottle off of the keg.

I'll usually bottle a 12 pack or sometimes a case this way.

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Do you carbinate before you bottle? I have considered doing this as well. when i think about it i assume that the beer is carbonated in the keg, I fill a bottle and cap it. Is it that simple?

With most of my batches I like to batch prime the keg with the correct amount of dextrose and bottle from there. I keg the batch as I routinely would and supersaturate the head space with CO2 all while my priming solution is boiling/cooling. Once relatively cooled, I add the priming solution to the keg and then re-saturate/purge the head space with CO2, seal it up and give it a slight mix by rolling it 1-2 full revolutions on the floor. After, I put a 2-3 psi on the keg with my CO2 tank and bottle from the keg by attaching my bottling want to where my picnic faucet would be and cap the bottles. Some people worry that this may take too long to carbonate but I find that carbonation is done in less than a week given the larger amount of yeast in the keg. I then adjust the CO2 with the regulator/purging.

I like this method because I always have a few bottles (exactly the amount I want) as back ups to age, bring places, or give away conveniently. I have never noticed any difference between CO2 carbonated and Dextrose carbonated ales. If the 4-5oz of dextrose is throwing your flavor off then something is wrong. Hope this helps.

Helper

Helper, I like your thinking. I have bottled from a cooled carbonated keg with my beer gun with great results. I am thinking of using your techinque using my beergun and see how that works. Am I going to have a problem with the huge headspace (half filled keg) and the keg carbonating?

SeeMont said:

Helper, I like your thinking. I have bottled from a cooled carbonated keg with my beer gun with great results. I am thinking of using your techinque using my beergun and see how that works. Am I going to have a problem with the huge headspace (half filled keg) and the keg carbonating?

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Yes. If you bottle a considerable amount (half) or even a quarter of the volume then your carbonation will be very low if you try and let it "bottle condition" in the keg this way. In a keg or a bottle the initial pressure in the headspace is approximately 1 atmosphere ( in theory and for explanation sake it's one, but it may be more due to the evolution of dissolved CO2 in the beer) and this headspace has a defined volume given by the liquid surface and the cap or keg lid. As the yeast metabolize the priming sugar and generate the CO2, the partial pressure of CO2 increases and causes it to dissolve into the beer or dissipate into the headspace (the ratio of CO2 dissolved in the beer versus the headspace is dependent on temperature). The partial pressure of the CO2 in the headspace increases since the cap or keg lid is applying an equal and opposite pressure giving a closed system with a defined volume. The greater the volume of the headspace, the lower the partial pressure of the CO2 is and thus less of the CO2 is dissolved in the beer. If you want to think about it like this also: we cap beer in a bottle and it has a small headspace. The beer is carbonated once the priming sugar is metabolized. In an infinite theory model, if we take that same primed beer and leave it uncapped giving us an infinite volume (well it's actually just the volume of the earth's atmosphere) of headspace then that beer will not be carbonated to any appreciated to any considerable degree.

In summary, the larger the headspace the less dissolved CO2 we will have. But this is under the assumption that we have a limited amount of CO2 and CO2 pressure which is only applicable to the amount of priming sugar. If we have a C02 tank then the head space is accounted for by our CO2 tank and regulator supplying CO2 at a given pressure. That is why we don't need to increase the psi on a keg that is getting empty because we are maintaining a constant supply of CO2 and CO2 pressure.

The long and the short of it is yes, your beer in the keg will not be effectively carbonated if you bottle a huge amount of it and leave it to carbonate. If and when I do this I just let the beer naturally finish the priming sugar and carbonated with CO2 from the tank accordingly. It's no different from CO2 gas carbonating an entire batch except for its a little quicker since there is a smaller volume of liquid that the CO2 dissolves into. Even when I plan to bottle a large amount, I still find it easier to bottle from a keg with batched primed beer.

UglyDude said:

I’m just wondering if anyone else out there has ever done this and what was your results/preference.

As for preference, I’m talking strictly taste/mouth/nose etc. not convenience etc (there are plenty of discussion about that already)

Cheers fellas

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UglyDude,

As I stated earlier, you shouldn't notice a difference in most of your beers but if you do you can adjust for the lack of body and mouthfeel that you may believe to notice from priming with dextrose by either process or recipe. You can always add a little bit more of a malt that adds unfermentable sugars to the wort. Or you could mash a little higher. Jamil Zainasheff suggests in I believe his Jamil Show Russian Imperial Stout episode that for every pound of dextrose added to the boil you should mash 2 degrees higher to ensure body and mouthfeel. This may just be for imperial stouts but it should translate here. So if you want to account for priming sugar you could use the equation:

T= (X/16 oz) x (2 degrees F)

Where X= the number of oz of priming sugar you plan to use. The water you plan to add to boil the sugar is usually accounted for with the rule of (4~5oz) of dextrose per 5 gallon batch for 2 volumes of CO2 so don't worry about taking the water of the priming solution into account.

For example; if you use 4 oz of dextrose for priming then that calculates out to be 1/2 a degree higher mash temperature (assuming a single infusion or saccharide conversion step mash schedule). I have never noticed any difference between batch primed or direct CO2 primed batches. If there is a difference in taste it is most likely attributed to a process difference or a fermentation difference. Hope this helps.

Helper

UglyDude said:

Do you carbinate before you bottle? I have considered doing this as well. when i think about it i assume that the beer is carbonated in the keg, I fill a bottle and cap it. Is it that simple?

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It's very simple- but since carbonated beer will foam (that's what makes such a nice head)- a counterpressure filler of some time is needed to maintain carbonation.

You don't need anything fancy, though! Check this out: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/

I've done that myself many times, and even won competitions with the beer I bottled that way. I later got a beergun for Christmas one year, but it's not any better than the technique I linked above.

I sometimes bottle and keg at the same time, when I have more than 5 gallons in the fermenter. I'll add priming sugar to the bottling bucket, just as if I was bottling (.5 ounces per gallon by weight) and bottle off a few bottles before filling my keg. Since that's about 2.5 ounces by weight for 5 gallons, any priming sugar left in the beer in the keg doesn't have any sort of sweet taste to it, so there isn't any sweetness added if I decide to stick it in the kegerator before the priming sugar is completely fermented if space becomes available sooner.

UglyDude said:

Do you carbinate before you bottle? I have considered doing this as well. when i think about it i assume that the beer is carbonated in the keg, I fill a bottle and cap it. Is it that simple?

Click to expand...

Sort of yeah.

Like Yooper said, you need some sort of counter pressure to keep it carbonated.

Follow that link Yooper posted and that is essentially what I do. Works really good. It's easy as can be too.