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Old 02-25-2008, 05:04 PM   #1
Schmitz
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Default Pectic Enzyme in Secondary

I've been making 30gallons a year for the past 3 seasons with my own apples. But this year somethings different.

My cider is not clearing in any of the carboys. Like years past, I left it in primary for 2-3months, then racked it over to rest another 3+ months. It began to clear and by the first month in secondary it was quite clear. This year, 2 months into the secondary and there is still a deliberate haze in the carboys.

I did try Pectic Enzyme in each carboy, doubling the dose in fact. After 3 days, all are still quite hazy.

Any thoughts?
Thanks

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Old 02-29-2008, 05:51 PM   #2
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Of note, the Pectic Enzyme is a year old and has been in the cold for a good period of time. Not sure if that matters.

I was under the assumption that pectic enzyme added even to a hazey secondary would clear it up. Is it only doable in the early stages of the primary, or at least after initial fermentation?

Not sure why it is not working for me.

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Old 10-15-2008, 08:15 PM   #3
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Default And...?

What happened? Did your cider turn out fine? I have a cider that has been in secondary for about 6 weeks and I haven't see any changes what-so-ever so far. I'm hoping this isn't a bad sign.

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Old 10-15-2008, 08:35 PM   #4
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Pectic enzyme isn't really a fining agent per se' and doesn't work like sparkelloid, or bentonite; it takes a little time. It works by breaking down the cellular walls and by breaking the bonds in the molecular chains of the pectin, once enough of the cell walls in the cells making up the suspended particulates have been breached, and/or the pectic bonds broken, those particulates should settle out with nothing but time & gravity required. You are at a bit of a disadvantage though, as you didn't add the enzyme until secondary. When added to primary, it has much more time to do it's job, and therefore it seems that it doesn't take as long, since you're not waiting for it. If you're in a hurry, you can use a fining agent. It's up to you, but I'd just wait & let time & the enzyme do their work. Regards, GF. EDIT: BTW, more is not always better when it comes to pectic enzyme. Regards, GF.

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Old 10-15-2008, 08:50 PM   #5
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Does Sparkelloid work well on Pectic Haze? My Peach Ginger (WAY over Gingered;( ) is has a serious pectic haze, and I'm not sure how I'm going to clear it...It's got a few months before I'm bottling it...but still....I want whichever method I use to be effective.

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Old 10-16-2008, 03:38 PM   #6
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I've used Sparkaloid successfully, but would like to hear people's experiences with gelatin or bentonite. I've read that both the gelatin and bentonite do remove different types of particle charges. Bentonite having negatively charged particles to help remove hazes with positively charged particles and the opposite for gelatin. So I would imagine you could determine the reason for your hazing by which works.

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Old 10-17-2008, 04:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmitz View Post
I've been making 30gallons a year for the past 3 seasons with my own apples. But this year somethings different.

My cider is not clearing in any of the carboys. Like years past, I left it in primary for 2-3months, then racked it over to rest another 3+ months. It began to clear and by the first month in secondary it was quite clear. This year, 2 months into the secondary and there is still a deliberate haze in the carboys.

I did try Pectic Enzyme in each carboy, doubling the dose in fact. After 3 days, all are still quite hazy.

Any thoughts?
Thanks
Schmitz: Did a little research online & found a couple tidbits of info you may (or may not) find useful... Found this at The Wittenham Hill Cider Portal

"Blending of ciders, if required, should always be carried out well before the final racking for storage or bottling. This is because the changes in acidity, nutrients and yeast levels, which occur when different batches are mixed, may affect the stability of the bulked cider and allow it to ferment further, even if the individual ciders were stable before blending. Similarly, if clear ciders are blended together they are quite likely to throw down a new haze or deposit which may need time to settle down."

Also, it seems that bentonite is quite useful for clearing suspended fruit pulp and/or proteins as per the following info I found here: Haze-active protein and polyphenols in apple juice assessed by turbidimetry

"The amount of haze-active protein in apple juice was determined by adding tannic acid to induce haze followed by turbidimetry. Turbidity was essentially linear with protein concentration. PVPP treatment prior to tannic acid addition appeared to remove endogenous polyphenols and resulted in slightly weaker response. Adding gelatin to apple juices or clarified ciders induced hazes in response to content of haze-active polyphenols. At an appropriate gelatin concentration turbidity was nearly linear with polyphenol concentration. Treatment with bentonite prior to gelatin addition appeared to remove endogenous protein. Temperature control during the induction period was critical to reproducibility."

I've never had a need for fining agents, but from what I've read, bentonite, which is mostly a type of clay, should do the job for you.

Kahuna: I think bentonite will work on your peach/ginger too, I'm not sure if sparkelloid will, or not. To learn more about using bentonite in conjunction with gelatin, go here: THE SCIENCE OF CIDERMAKING Part 5 - When things go wrong and scroll down to "Hazes & Deposits." I hope you both find this info useful. Regards, GF.

EDIT: As per Midwest HBS (on pectic enzyme): "Do not add this enzyme with bentonite, as this will negate the effect." Also from Midwest: "Bentonite: This clay-like mineral removes positively charged particles from wine. Add prior to fermentation to clear pectic and protein haze. Blend ½ teaspoon with ½ cup of boiling water. Blend for 1-2 minutes. After the solution stands for an hour, mix and stir the solution into your wine. Let stand for 7 – 14 days, then rack." Also, hightest has some info on both sparkelloid & bentonite in his meadmaking FAQ's that could be useful.

Hope this info helps. Regards, GF.
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Last edited by gratus fermentatio; 10-18-2008 at 12:32 AM.
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