Black Berry Vanilla Still Sweet Melomel- suggestions please

OK! I have gathered all but the honey, which will be Monday. Here's what I got...

7 gal. Pale Primary fermenter
(2) 5gal Glass Secondary
Refractometer
Hydrometer
Star-San
various other Brewing paraphernalia (funnels, tubing, siphon and such)

Wyeast 4184
(2) 96oz cans of Blackberry
Madagascar Vanilla Beans
Vanilla Extract
Spring water

Here is the plan. I was thinking about doing 16-18lbs honey to 5gal water. No Boil. Stir...take a reading. Add one of the cans of Black berries and 4 vanilla beans. Shake. Pump some air thought it for about 10min. Take a second reading and temp. Pitch the yeast.

(Ferment) ??till when??

Rack into Glass carboy with Second can of Black Berries and 4 more vanilla beans (how much extract??). Take a reading.

(ferment till dead) ?? Kill it at what reading??
Rack to ditch the dregs...clarify... take final reading and bottle.
Primary taste...wait 4-5 months...drink N share.

Where are my flaws...in my plan? Have any advice? I'm a little foggy on a few points...

Sounds like a pretty good plan, I have never used that yeast before, is it strong enough to handle that much honey? What kind of honey are you using? It looks like you are planning on using 8 vanilla beans? Might be a bit to much, might be better to just ferment the juice and honey, then when its in the secondary add a couple vanilla beans, let them soak for a couple of weeks and give it a taste, if not strong enough add a couple of more. I like to split them like a banana peel so they stand up on the bottom of the carboy, more surface area standing up. WVMJ

...so skip the beans in the primary and just use some in Second? As for the yeast- it's gotten good reviews and been on the market since my first bout with brewing back in the 80's If anyone thinks of a better one chime in now 'cuz Monday is B-Day!

As for the Honey...should I cut it back? Looking for a Sweet Mead- I just don't think 15lb would be enough when everything is said an done. It's going to be a mixed Mangrove collection so there is not gentle notes that I am aware of. Still need to taste it to see.

Howling_Moon_Woffie said:

...so skip the beans in the primary and just use some in Second? As for the yeast- it's gotten good reviews and been on the market since my first bout with brewing back in the 80's If anyone thinks of a better one chime in now 'cuz Monday is B-Day!

As for the Honey...should I cut it back? Looking for a Sweet Mead- I just don't think 15lb would be enough when everything is said an done. It's going to be a mixed Mangrove collection so there is not gentle notes that I am aware of. Still need to taste it to see.

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Well I have no idea what you've been reading about wyeast sweet mead but certainly nothing that I've read and probably not the right search terms........

I have read of people having success with it, but it would seem that more (me included) have found it to be a finicky as hell PITA. It seems to either stick (one of my attempts) or plain old refuse to start (my other two attempts). It has a low (relatively) alcohol tolerance of 11%.

Of all the liquid "mead" yeasts it has the worst rep..... the wyeast dry and the two from white labs seem to be fine.

Though nothing is gained from these so called mead yeasts (how the hell do they know what was originally used ? The high point of meads was nearly 1000 year's ago and they knew bugger all about yeasts) there are no, strangely enough, dry (not liquid) mead yeasts I'm aware of, just some wine yeasts known to be good with meads. Even then yeast choice can be controversial, or sometimes not so easy to get if you want something off the beaten track......

Over all, not too bad a plan though a little adventurous if you haven't made much mead....

Jack has covered many points -I can't see any point in using vanilla pods as well as extract (pods are more controllable). One can of the fruit base in primary and the other in secondary should give wine like character as well as some fruitiness.

Ferment dry in primary, then rack and add the second fruit addition.

The vanilla in secondary works as it extracts well in the presence of alcohol so you can remove the pods before it gets too strong...

That's why I post this. Thanks Bloke for the input...how about a suggestion on the yeast type if you don't like Wyeast. I bow to your experience. As for my research- might be out dated- still going off what a brew house/Shop suggested. I have looked at others but I personally don't like champagne yeast and the last batch of Mead I brewed (at that Brew Shop a few years ago) was a Sherry yeast that had to be killed at 21%. Not the most friendly drink...unless you like stripping paint.

Would you suggest I use the LALVIN D47?

*edit after looking at the Over all Opinion of Wyeast on these boards*
Wow...you guys REALLY don't like them. LOL Guess that just answered my question. Since I already BOUGHT it would it hurt to start with the 4184 and if I run into problems drop in the D47?

Well D47 just needs to be kept below 70F/21C otherwise its known to produce fusels but wouldn't do a bad job.

Or 71B is good with fruit too. Its not one to leave on the lees too long once the ferment has finished (2 months max is the guesstimate but there's no scientific reasoning-just that there doesnt seem any problems with autolysis in that time span).

There's some others that are known as good for reds but only RC212 is easily got and its a bit of a nutrient hog.....

If you've got the wyeast stuff already, id say make a gallon of traditional, allowing honey for 11% max (its tolerance), make a starter to ensure a strong colony before pitch. Also keep an eye on the pH, if it swings too low it can stick too..... That way you'll know if you get on with it and at worst, you could top off with it......

p.s. and don't take my word for it, I'm just a bloke who's made a fair bit of mead and made plenty of mistakes......

So much for the plan Hey it's all guess work in a lab coat...or in my case a chocolatiere's coat. LOL I'm in Florida so the Lowest temp I can get is the high side of 75F. Anyone know of a Yeast that will work.

Anyone know of a Yeast that will work.

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Lalvin 71B is one.

In for a Penny...in for a pound. I'll pick some Lalvin 71B up tomorrow.

Thanks All

Howling_Moon_Woffie said:

In for a Penny...in for a pound. I'll pick some Lalvin 71B up tomorrow.

Thanks All

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K1v1116. It has just about the widest temp range of the Lalvin offerings. Makes good mead too......

I also live in Fl. and I have the same issues with temp. I have had good luck with Red Star Dry yeast Champagne od Montrachete ( excuse the spelling I really suck at it LOL). I have also heard good things about Lavin #47 which I am going to try this week.

I also would suggest not to raise your temp above 150 F if you boil it you will kill the flavor of the honey. 145 F @ 25 min will kill all of the bacteria and wild yeast. I also know pros that will not get theirs above 100 F which I am not that brave yet.

I have found that the flavors of fruit come in soon but spices take a little longer like 1 year plus (my experience at least)

I also use 3.5 - 4.5 pounds of honey per gallon which runs in the area of 1.145 O.G. and 1.035 F.G.Approx depends on the flavor.

GOOD LUCK! and always have fun brewing.

Fermenter #1 - Wildflower mead
Fermenter #2 - Ginger peach
Fermenter #3 - Blueberry
Fermenter #4 - Pumpkin Pie
Fermenter #5 - Winter spice
Fermenter #6 - Empty


Greenwulf

OK! It's in and singing me the song of it's people!


I ended up doing the following:
92oz of Blackberry
4.5gal spring water (the .5 didn't fit)
20lb Local Mangrove Honey (Raw, filtered, unboiled)
one vanilla bean
Nutrient (as directed)

Aerated for 10min with a fish pump and stone...
SG of 1.100 Start temp of 79F

I wouldn't worry about the yeast. I used the same stuff for my first batch Which also had about 16 lbs of honey. Handled it just fine. I also pulled a half gallon out when racking to secondary to ferment with 3/4 lbs of blackberries. Came out pretty good, particularly when I added a bit of vanilla extract to a glass. Only problem is that the extract had a tendency to settle out, and get really bitter. Planning on using a bean nest time and making the blackberries part of the primary.

OK Guys and Gals...the Kids have been partying for almost a week. Looks like a percolator coffee pot.

When do I crack it open to take a reading? Do I just let them go till they stop then drop it into the 2nd fermenter with the extra berries and Vanilla beans?

I guess I'm getting twitchy and don't want to screw the pooch.

Racking Day!

Dropped from Primary today. SG was 1.00/1.035. Odd thing was there was too much in the Primary so I dropped the rest in my other 5gal. So...Thing one and Thing two are now racked. In thing one- I added more blackberries....more vanilla...a bit of nutrient then topped it off with spring water. In thing two I just added blackberry puree and spring water. Now we play the waiting game.

Nice colour......

Presume you did settle on 71B eventually ?

Once the yeast has settled out some, it should look like a medium coloured red, and presumably nice fruity taste.

You say blackberry ? but did you mean Blackberries/Brambles ? or Black currants ?

Only because the picture of the bucket with fruit in it, looks like black currants...

Plus when it comes to fruit, there's different names for similar things on both sides of the pond and I'm trying to think on what the flavour is gonna be like....

Nope- they were Blackberries not currants. I see what ya mean though. They just went through a rough patch during primary. I used two cans of that blackberry wine starter stuff as well as the Blackberry puree I had left over from the Chocolate Truffles I did.

I ended up using the LALVIN d47 for this batch. Next run I'll try the 71B.

Well...I took readings and they both are tapped out at 1.0SG so it should be time to rack again so it can clear. Thing #1- was hot (alcohol bite) and overly fruity. Thing #2-well...had an overly yeasty taste still. I'm going to bottle both separate and back sweeten Thing #1. I hope the vanilla will come out in the aging. Right now I'm not really happy with it... :/ Once I rack/filter What should I use to kill it?

Yet another update from the Brew Closet...

It's Dead Jim...I killed the yeast and had a chance to back sweeten a tad. Karen (Wife) helped loads in getting it right. My first try was more like Manischewitz cough syrup. Now...it tastes great! Ending at the high side of 12% All the pre-pitching steps I took reduced the "Hot" taste to just about nothing. It's drinkable now! I used Fatbloke's back sweeting steps (ended up 32fluid oz honey/ 7gal Mead base) Clearing agent (non-shellfish type so my friends are safe!) Should clear up in the next few days. Next step is bottling! Keep in mind...it is a Sweet Still Melomel FULL of blackberry goodness. The Vanilla is very faint on the back notes... I am happy with this run. Pics once it's clear! Laters!

I'm starting a one gal batch of this tomorrow with 71-B. The blackberries are freezing right now. I still haven't found a source of vanilla bean yet. I've got to check the organic stores and see if they have it.

Lungus said:

I'm starting a one gal batch of this tomorrow with 71-B. The blackberries are freezing right now. I still haven't found a source of vanilla bean yet. I've got to check the organic stores and see if they have it.

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If it was to do it again I would save all the beans till the second fermenter or even wait till like a day or two before bottling and hit it with extract. The money I dropped in this batch for vanilla beans really didn't pay out.

Lungus said:

I'm starting a one gal batch of this tomorrow with 71-B. The blackberries are freezing right now. I still haven't found a source of vanilla bean yet. I've got to check the organic stores and see if they have it.

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Buy vanilla beans online in bulk. You wont be disapointed. Grade B is what they use for extracts. Last time I bought vanilla beans it was about 3/4 a pound for about $25. Free shipping at Amazon.com. Just search for Grade B vanilla beans. The only difference between Grade B and Grade A is prettyness which is not neccessary here. It's not like you are using the bean for presentation. Trust me, it will be MUCH cheaper than finding it in a local store. And you will know when they get to your house as you can smell them in the package from at least 10 ft away. I use a mixture of Tahitian and Bourbon beans. The Tahitian are a bit cheaper but dryer. Combined they have a full vanilla flavor. I have been told that Bourban is a type of vanilla that has a long flavor with not much up front on taste but Tahitian is a flash of vanilla with a touch of fruit flavor. Most comercal grade extracts use a combination of the two. To give you an idea on how much 3/4 a pound is, that's close to 100 beans about 6-8 inches long.

Matrix

If it was to do it again I would save all the beans till the second fermenter or even wait till like a day or two before bottling

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I only put in 1/3 to 1/2 of the fruit in the primary. The rest is still in the freezer. When the primary fermentation is done and it has fermented out dry I'll rack it onto sulphite and sorbate. At that point I'll add the vanilla bean, the rest of the fruit, let it sit for a month or so until the sugars and colour are gone from the fruit maybe backsweeten with a bit more honey and then rack it into a carboy for a good sit.

I'll try adding it at a different time next time because the quality of vanilla beans is one of the highest- I'm using the same beans I use in my chocolates- Madagascar Vanilla Beans. Matrix is right- get it from the net and save money. Just make sure it is a reputable source, there is a bunch of shady dealers out there but that is mostly with extracts. ^^

Howling or is that Moon,

When you say you "killed the yeast" what did you add? Perhaps I am being too literal (in the real meaning of the word, not the VP meaning), but in reading Hightest info Potassium Sorbate doesn't kill as just prevents growth. So did you add something else to actually kill the yeast?

Regards,

Ron

Howling_Moon_Woffie said:

Yet another update from the Brew Closet...

It's Dead Jim...I killed the yeast and had a chance to back sweeten a tad. Karen (Wife) helped loads in getting it right. My first try was more like Manischewitz cough syrup. Now...it tastes great! Ending at the high side of 12% All the pre-pitching steps I took reduced the "Hot" taste to just about nothing. It's drinkable now! I used Fatbloke's back sweeting steps (ended up 32fluid oz honey/ 7gal Mead base) Clearing agent (non-shellfish type so my friends are safe!) Should clear up in the next few days. Next step is bottling! Keep in mind...it is a Sweet Still Melomel FULL of blackberry goodness. The Vanilla is very faint on the back notes... I am happy with this run. Pics once it's clear! Laters!

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Sorry for not phrasing it correctly- going for humor. In "Killing the yeast"...I am referring to the adding of the sulphates and Sorbates to stop any additional activity. Already had a year of exploding bottles- never again.

..and it's Woffie from Howling Moon Chocolates