Aircraft issue...

Beginning to sound like the fatal crash in BUF last night had something to do with the A/C, specifically a possible relationship between icing and flaps. Horrible tragedy.

I read that other pilots were reporting icing 20 miles south of the airport. Scary thing is I've taken that flight a bunch of times, as has my BIL.

Do you find it odd that there was no distress call?

shecky said:

I read that other pilots were reporting icing 20 miles south of the airport. Scary thing is I've taken that flight a bunch of times, as has my BIL.

Do you find it odd that there was no distress call?

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We get ice every day... even in the summer, that isnt odd. What is odd is that immediately after deploying flaps the plane began severe pitch and roll oscillations. They crew had no time to make a call, they were busy trying not to die.

The Pol said:

We get ice every day... even in the summer, that isnt odd. What is odd is that immediately after deploying flaps the plane began severe pitch and roll oscillations. They crew had no time to make a call, they were busy trying not to die.

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That's what I figured. Just wanted to get a pro perspective.

On another note, do you get the heebie jeebies about flying so soon after an accident? I know, too many questions.

shecky said:

That's what I figured. Just wanted to get a pro perspective.

On another note, do you get the heebie jeebies about flying so soon after an accident? I know, too many questions.

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No, the training we recieve consists of some VERY insane failures with different systems in the plane. The drive from the hotel to the airport is much more hazardous, I feel completely safe flying. Aside from a wing falling off, I feel confident I could put a plane down safely.

The Pol said:

No, the training we recieve consists of some VERY insane failures with different systems in the plane. The drive from the hotel to the airport is much more hazardous, I feel completely safe flying. Aside from a wing falling off, I feel confident I could put a plane down safely.

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So you think you could land one in the hudson?

Sure... we practice ditching, landing with a dual engine failure...landing with abnormal gear extension, landing with one engine failed and the other on fire. Pilot training is extremely intense. Unfortuantely this crew that dies got paid $19,000 a year for the FO and about $50,000 a year for the Capt.

We complete take-offs with one engine running and the other failed... we do it all. It appears that #1 this aircraft had a problem with the de-icing system, or an issue with an abnormal flap extension. The crew had no chance in either case.

Flight crews deal with system or component failures every day, seamlessly. The only time the passengers or the media find out is when we cant deal with it and the plane crashes.

The Pol said:

Sure... we practice ditching, landing with a dual engine failure...landing with abnormal gear extension, landing with one engine failed and the other on fire. Pilot training is extremely intense. Unfortuantely this crew that dies got paid $19,000 a year for the FO and about $50,000 a year for the Capt.

We complete take-offs with one engine running and the other failed... we do it all. It appears that #1 this aircraft had a problem with the de-icing system, or an issue with an abnormal flap extension. The crew had no chance in either case.

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what's FO?

dataz722 said:

what's FO?

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first officer

FO is the First Officer... the secondary pilot, the one that flies half of the flights. He makes little more than a flight attendant...

The Pol said:

Flight crews deal with system or component failures every day, seamlessly.

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I really DID NOT need to know that.

How do you practice ditching your plane into a body of water? I am assuming they have some type of super hi tech simulator or something.

Hey, stuff happens, they are complex machines. Rest assured you are in very capable hands.

That was sad.

And how about being in the house?

Skins_Brew said:

How do you practice ditching your plane into a body of water? I am assuming they have some type of super hi tech simulator or something.

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The full motion simulators are capable of re-creating G forces... they are life-like down to the fact that there is an ACTUAL cockpit up on those 15' tall hydraulic legs. They are called level D simulators and they are all that we can use, the only acceptable alternative is the actual plane.

The simulators run off parameters that come from the aircraft manufacturer so that every control input in the simulator results in the exact same G force and movement in the SIM that you would have in real life.

How often do you, or are required, to make use of the simulators?

Every 6 months as a captain I have to sit down and have a 4 day ground school, 2 hour oral exam, over anything that they would like to grill me on. Then I spend 4 hours in the simulator doing anything but flying a WORKING airplane. Every moment in the "box" is basically an emergency, one after another. Mind you not emergencies at a comfy 30,000 feet, take-off and landing where the a/c is most vulnerable.

If I dont pass... well... I look for a job. How many jobs evaluate you in the most high stress condition you will ever experience in your career, and kick you to the curb if you dont hack it? Some, not many.

Man, i would totally pay like $50 to play around in one of those things for a little while.

The Pol said:

Every 6 months as a captain I have to sit down and have a 4 day ground school, 2 hour oral exam, over anything that they would like to grill me on. Then I spend 4 hours in the simulator doing anything but flying a WORKING airplane. Every moment in the "box" is basically an emergency, one after another. Mind you not emergencies at a comfy 30,000 feet, take-off and landing where the a/c is most vulnerable.

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I think bus drivers have similar standards

Skins_Brew said:

Man, i would totally pay like $50 to play around in one of those things for a little while.

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Hell ya, puts Cruisin' USA to shame

Parker36 said:

I think bus drivers have similar standards



Hell ya, puts Cruisin' USA to shame

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Yeah, I have seen busses on fire traveling at 150mph with a 30 knot crosswind landing on a narrow patch of pavement a few times. THANK GOD for Greyhound!

The Pol said:

Yeah, I have seen busses on fire traveling at 150mph with a 30 knot crosswind landing on a narrow patch of pavement a few times. THANK GOD for Greyhound!

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Yeah, but you don't have to pick up passengers in the 'hood.

shecky said:

Yeah, but you don't have to pick up passengers in the 'hood.

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Oh REALLY? Have you seen passengers these days?

The Pol said:

Oh REALLY? Have you seen passengers these days?

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Good point. And I guess LaGuardia sort of qualifies as the 'hood.

They're just falling out of the sky now, British Airways jet with 71 aboard crash-lands

Parker36 said:

They're just falling out of the sky now, British Airways jet with 71 aboard crash-lands

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Collapsed nose gear...
LaGuardia is the hood... Newark? Philly? The 'hood is everywhere.

The Pol said:

Collapsed nose gear...
LaGuardia is the hood... Newark? Philly? The 'hood is everywhere.

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I'm OK with Newark but I spend a lot of time there. Be there tomorrow, not for the airport, though. Philly is the worst airport in the world. I hate that place.

Regardless... it will be interesting to see what comes of this investigation. I am very surprised that they have released ANYTHING in less than 24 hours.

Yeah, we sure seem to know a lot about this one already. Usually the FAA is really tight with handing out info.

Yeah, it is really odd, but interesting to see. That was a pretty new plane, the Q400 is an innovation in turboprop planes. My plane today has only fown for 9 days, it is BRAND new...

The Pol said:

Yeah, it is really odd, but interesting to see. That was a pretty new plane, the Q400 is an innovation in turboprop planes. My plane today has only fown for 9 days, it is BRAND new...

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Was it a turboprop?
What's the deal with all the small planes lately? I always seem to be on a turbprop. Was on one from Chicago to Hartford, which seemed like a long way for such a small plane.

shecky said:

I'm OK with Newark but I spend a lot of time there. Be there tomorrow, not for the airport, though. Philly is the worst airport in the world. I hate that place.

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Surely you have never been to Hell International aka Miami International. I think a 5 year old designed that airport.

Skins_Brew said:

Surely you have never been to Hell International aka Miami International. I think a 5 year old designed that airport.

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I love Miami... except that I am a minority and dont speak the language.

Skins_Brew said:

Surely you have never been to Hell International aka Miami International. I think a 5 year old designed that airport.

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Indeed I have. It's why I choose Ft. Lauderdale.

Someday I look forward to seeing The_Pols smiling face as I board an aircraft. Oh, wait, they probably don't interact with the passengers much anymore after 9/11. I hope all pilots have the same level of concern and dedication to their job.

The Pol said:

I love Miami... except that I am a minority and dont speak the language.

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The layout is the dumbest in the world. I mean, seriously? Its one long ass terminal. Of course my gate was D50, which just happens to be the very last fricking gate. The only good thing about Miami was the eye candy, which was in abundance

McBrew said:

Someday I look forward to seeing The_Pols smiling face as I board an aircraft. Oh, wait, they probably don't interact with the passengers much anymore after 9/11. I hope all pilots have the same level of concern and dedication to their job.

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Over the last few years, whenever I boarded or deboarded, the cockpit door has been open and there is usually some type of pilot either greeting me or saying good bye.

Skins_Brew said:

The layout is the dumbest in the world. I mean, seriously? Its one long ass terminal. Of course my gate was D50, which just happens to be the very last fricking gate. The only good thing about Miami was the eye candy, which was in abundance



Over the last few years, whenever I boarded or deboarded, the cockpit door has been open and there is usually some type of pilot either greeting me or saying good bye.

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Our door is open up until the cabin door being closed and it opens as soon as our parking checklist is complete. We have people up there all the time, kids and adults... for pictures etc. My door is always open when the fires are out.

Last night I flew on a Continental/Colgan Q400 from Toronto to Newark. The plane was supposed to leave at 2pm, it left at 6:30. The delay was due to high winds, and it was one of the only flights that was released by Newark, the rest were cancelled. I fly all the time, and last night was one of the roughest flights I've flown in a long time. On the entire descent, I was wondering how a pilot trains for these situations. Fortunately we landed OK, but all I could think about last night after I heard the news was that it could have been me, or maybe the plane I was on deboarded then took off for Buffalo. But, as the pro said, it is very safe to fly, and I'll be on another plane March 3rd. I'd fly tomorrow if I had to.

Pol, I saw a post last night you were flying a Delta ship, was that correct or am I imagining things? I thought I remember a post saying you flew for US or American... I can't remember

McKBrew said:

Someday I look forward to seeing The_Pols smiling face as I board an aircraft. Oh, wait, they probably don't interact with the passengers much anymore after 9/11. I hope all pilots have the same level of concern and dedication to their job.

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Me too, would be pretty funny. I'd punch him right in his stupid face

nealf said:

Pol, I saw a post last night you were flying a Delta ship, was that correct or am I imagining things? I thought I remember a post saying you flew for US or American... I can't remember

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I fly for Delta and United... this week I am doing the Delta Shuttle flights from LGA to DCA and to MDW.... allllll weeeeeek.