Taking my Rig Electric

So here are a few pics of my current setup. A two tier, one pump, no automation ("direct-fired RIMS" if you will) with 15G pots (but I normally only do 5 gallon batches I just like the freedom to do a larger batch if I want) There is actually a burner underneath the 2nd tier HLT but I was having issues with getting it mounted before this brew session -








At some point I want to go all electric - something very close to The Electric Brewery, in fact probably just buying the The Electric Brewery control panel prewired as I have wired some basic stuff before, but as other folks have mentioned, I have a wife and children that I like to spend time with. However I do not have $3-4K to drop on the panel and other things at the time being.

Anyways, in the meantime I would like to make everything electric but the boil stage of the process (I would still be boiling with propane). I like the idea of RIMS, but I would still need something to heat the strike water, so that's out. So I was thinking of doing HERMS.

My first and most important question was:

#1 Will I be able to heat strike water and maintain with HERMS with only 120V service? I know people ask all the time and based on this spreadsheet that I downloaded from somewhere on here, it tells me that to bring 7 gallons of water from 60 to 160 with 1500 watts it should take 1h 12m, which is acceptable to me. But I guess I am more interested in feedback from people who have used 120V just for the HERMS aspect of it, not boiling.

#2 I would probably be adding another pump to my system to circulate the HLT water, so probably running two pumps (1.4A each) and the 1500W element (12.5A) and off of one circuit, so that would be 15.3, so running off of a 20A circuit should be OK, right? Unless I am forgetting to add something into the calculations.
#3 I had been looking at a 1 PID setup for now, and wanted to run an RTD like this - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249 - to monitor temps. But if I am only monitoring mash temps (say at the output of the MLT) I still need a way to monitor the HLT temp for strike and sparge water. I had a thought of either doing the XLR setup like The Electric Brewery, and having one probe on the outlet of the HLT and one on the outlet of the MLT and switching them out when needs be, but not being familiar with PIDs I am not sure if this would work, or if doing two PIDs is the better solution.

Thanks for taking the time to read

Even though you have dual doors open I am still highly disturbed you are doing that inside.

Do you have 20 amp service? Standard is 15A.

Even if you go on the cheaper for now, I imagine one day you will really want to kick over the setup to a full 220v setup. So, my recommendation is to setup your panel and everything with that switch over in mind so you don't spend money now and then end up having to virtually start from scratch down the road. This will take much more planning than buying everything off of Kal's parts list and going from there though but in the long run when a 220v comes available you will be happy you did.

First, nice looking setup in general.

#1: Yeah you should be fine running the HERMs with the 1500w. Once you get up to temp it does not take a whole lot of power to keep it there. You’ve already said you were okay with the warmup temps. It might take a bit of getting used to if you are doing multiple rests and need to raise the entire volume (HLT and MLT) up to a new rest (or even to sparge temperatures), but it will work if you’re okay with the time waiting. One way I sometimes get around the lag times to step up to sparge temps is by shutting off the MLT recirc pump about 15 minutes before mashout, and allow the HLT to heat up to 170 or so. Then turn on the MLT recirc and if the flowrate is slow enough the output will be at perfect mashout temperature.


#2: You’ll be fine. 15.3 amps / 20.0 amps is 76.5% which is below the (conservative) estimate of 80% loading capacity. I may have missed it but it would be worth repeating anyhow…GFCI.

#3: People do this step differently, but its not really necessary to have two PIDs. What I do on my system is have an RTD on both my HLT and on the outlet of the HERMs coil. Depending on where I am at in brew session, I just switch the disconnect wire between the two (you could also rig up a switch on your control panel so you don’t have to physically move the wire). So when I am heating strike water the PID is reading the HLT. And when I am recirculating my mash it is in the HERMs coil. I’ve noticed that on my system at least the MLT is often times a few degrees cooler than the HLT. So I just adjust for that and check temps with a Thermopen just in case something if off (it rarely is).

Bensiff said:

Even though you have dual doors open I am still highly disturbed you are doing that inside.

Do you have 20 amp service? Standard is 15A.

Even if you go on the cheaper for now, I imagine one day you will really want to kick over the setup to a full 220v setup. So, my recommendation is to setup your panel and everything with that switch over in mind so you don't spend money now and then end up having to virtually start from scratch down the road. This will take much more planning than buying everything off of Kal's parts list and going from there though but in the long run when a 220v comes available you will be happy you did.

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Yeah I'm not pleased with the situation either, but its not really "inside" - the side of the room that I am taking the picture from has a door wide open and a window wide open as well and numerous fans going. Like I said, not ideal, but kinda what I limited to for the time being.

One day I do want to do a 220V setup, but we may not be in the house we are currently in two years down the road, and I probably won't have the $ for that setup until then.

Jeebas said:

One day I do want to do a 220V setup, but we may not be in the house we are currently in two years down the road, and I probably won't have the $ for that setup until then.

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And that is why you set it up to go that route eventually, lay out your box and install the components with the idea that you will eventually add more PIDS and SSRs and the like down the road so you don't end up having to rebuild from the ground up as things like steel enclosures are expensive items to replace. That sort of thing is why I'm really going slow on my current build, I don't want to finish it and realize I will want to over haul it a few years later...probably still going to happen because I love to tinker with things but I'd rather put that energy and money into something else.

I can see you have the balcony door open but... tell me you have a carbon monoxide alarm in that room.

http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

alien said:

I can see you have the balcony door open but... tell me you have a carbon monoxide alarm in that room.

http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

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Yes I do.

Bensiff said:

And that is why you set it up to go that route eventually, lay out your box and install the components with the idea that you will eventually add more PIDS and SSRs and the like down the road so you don't end up having to rebuild from the ground up as things like steel enclosures are expensive items to replace. That sort of thing is why I'm really going slow on my current build, I don't want to finish it and realize I will want to over haul it a few years later...probably still going to happen because I love to tinker with things but I'd rather put that energy and money into something else.

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I would like to do that. On the other hand I could do something like this - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/step-step-build-110v-portable-pid-controller-379938/ or https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/countertop-brutus-20-a-131411/ where the enclosure isn't very much money and I could possibly sell it afterwards.

Right now I am still on the fence about whether to go forward with this or just wait until I have the $ and situation to go 220V. After a handful of brewing sessions with propane I am not as big of a fan, and would like to get away from it - or at least using it for the mash - soon.

Yeah that might be cheap enough to consider it a throw away project when the time comes to go 220.

There have been plenty of discussion on setting up a panel that would work on 120 or 240 with just a few special relays setup to make sure you don't kill yourself or your equipment. Then you could run a 240v element at 120v if you only had 120v, deal with the lower wattage that would result from the voltage drop, but once you get to a good 240v source, you could use the exact same equipment and have it run fine.

Or wire it up and just swap one or two wires before switching over to 240 assuming you wouldn't be going back and forth and don't need the ability to switch between the two.

First and foremost I need to figure out if I actually have 20A circuit running out to this room. I thought I did, and I know I have it for the baseboard heating in the room, but the circuit that powers the outlets - I need to 2x check tonight. If I don't, then it doesn't seem like this is gonna be (safely) doable with 15A.

Yeah, important to figure out, it would surprise me if you did as 20 amp requires 12-3 wire which is a bit more expensive than 14-3 and contractors usually do the minimum to save money.

What BadNews said is a very good thought though, it would allow you to fully piece together what you want and then run the 220 elements at the 110 voltage for now...I completely forgot you could do that.

No 20A 120V service out to the room.

More importantly, the wife is not OK with me going forward with going electric at this point ("you spent all last year adding onto your current system, so use it!"). So its gonna have to wait. Oh well, at least I can still make my parts list up.

Now to make a really bitchin control panel for my planned double fermentation chamber + automated grain mill

Jeebas said:

No 20A 120V service out to the room.

More importantly, the wife is not OK with me going forward with going electric at this point ("you spent all last year adding onto your current system, so use it!"). So its gonna have to wait. Oh well, at least I can still make my parts list up.

Now to make a really bitchin control panel for my planned double fermentation chamber + automated grain mill

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One thing I am is a lucky guy, my wife is in full support of my system upgrade to all electric. If it has to do with brewing she says go ahead and do it. But, I suppose it is my main hobby and relative to things like 4x4's, boats, motorcycles, and the like, brewing is pretty cheap (and I had my 4x4 before we got married ).

Interested in your double fermentation chamber, does that mean dual zones? Also, what is your thought on automated grain mill...do you just mean adding a motor or something more advanced?

Bensiff said:

One thing I am is a lucky guy, my wife is in full support of my system upgrade to all electric. If it has to do with brewing she says go ahead and do it. But, I suppose it is my main hobby and relative to things like 4x4's, boats, motorcycles, and the like, brewing is pretty cheap (and I had my 4x4 before we got married ).

Interested in your double fermentation chamber, does that mean dual zones? Also, what is your thought on automated grain mill...do you just mean adding a motor or something more advanced?

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Its not that she isn't eventually in support for the upgrade to electric, just that I need to pick and choose my projects, and also have less of them so as to spend more of my free time with her and our boys. She's not wrong

As far as the fermentation chamber I was thinking of doing 2 different chambers entirely, with a "grain mill stand" in the middle of them, and a control panel for heat (light bulb in paint can method) / cool (minifridge) to each ferm chamber, and a switched outlet for a drill to "motorize" my barleycrusher. The grain mill "motor" will be similar to what was done here - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/motorized-barley-crusher-366756/#post4577785 - except the mill would be mounted on top of an enclosed cabinet. I just got the drill used in that post for my birthday so I'm halfway there

The control panel would use two STC-1000s, each powering one outlet (http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/d8/d8b7327f-e50f-4269-ab37-2107e1506068_300.jpg) for heating and cooling (so four outlets total so far), then a switch controlling power to an outlet for the drill.

Then of course, lights depicting heating and cooling being turned on for each chamber, a main power switch, a bottle opener (jk).

As far as the structure itself I keep putting off drawing it up, maybe this is a good time for me to finally learn how to use Sketchup.

Jeebas said:

Its not that she isn't eventually in support for the upgrade to electric, just that I need to pick and choose my projects, and also have less of them so as to spend more of my free time with her and our boys. She's not wrong

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Yeah, that is my one caveat too, if my wife feels neglected then everything goes on hold, if she feels payed attention to then she fully encourages my endeavors.

As far as the fermentation chamber I was thinking of doing 2 different chambers entirely, with a "grain mill stand" in the middle of them, and a control panel for heat (light bulb in paint can method) / cool (minifridge) to each ferm chamber, and a switched outlet for a drill to "motorize" my barleycrusher. The grain mill "motor" will be similar to what was done here - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/motorized-barley-crusher-366756/#post4577785 - except the mill would be mounted on top of an enclosed cabinet. I just got the drill used in that post for my birthday so I'm halfway there

The control panel would use two STC-1000s, each powering one outlet (http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/d8/d8b7327f-e50f-4269-ab37-2107e1506068_300.jpg) for heating and cooling (so four outlets total so far), then a switch controlling power to an outlet for the drill.

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I have been playing with the idea to redo my fermentation chamber and grain mill and doing like you, consolidating the two to save space. Probably wouldn't hurt for me to add an actual switch to my 1/2hp motor powering my MM3 instead of plugging in/out for on/off.

No concerns regarding milling grain so close to your cold side brewery? Braver than I, lol.

Second that I have been told by a local brew master not mill your grain in the same place you pitch or ferment in. The dust makes for a ripe environment for bacteria you don't want. I have since taken to milling outside the garage away from where I brew.

Valid point.

Its hard to explain without things sketched up but the fermentation chambers will be sealed and separate from the grain mill. I don't plan on milling grain anywhere near the same time as I will be pitching yeast. I also have fans running through this room anytime I am using it.