Simple 30A Control Panel Build Thread

[BeantownD]

I've started accumulating parts for my control panel build. I will be building a 2 element, single PID control panel based off of one of P-J's drawings. Thanks P-J for your incredible contribution to the e-brewing world.
My goal is to build a low to moderate budget system. No, this won't be some bling bling thread. It's going to be more like a "if there is a less expensive way to do the same thing, it's for me" kind of thread.

About the set up:
Controller box:
12x12x6 Carlon box from HD
Switches, SSR, Contactors, PID and indicator lights from Auber
Chugger Pump
Element housing from Bobby M

Here's some pics of the panel layout

 

[augiedoggy]

I've started accumulating parts for my control panel build. I will be building a 2 element, single PID control panel based off of one of P-J's drawings. Thanks P-J for your incredible contribution to the e-brewing world.
My goal is to build a low to moderate budget system. No, this won't be some bling bling thread. It's going to be more like a "if there is a less expensive way to do the same thing, it's for me" kind of thread.

About the set up:
Controller box:
12x12x6 Carlon box from HD
Switches, SSR, Contactors, PID and indicator lights from Auber
Chugger Pump
Element housing from Bobby M

Here's some pics of the panel layout

Well I hate to tell you this but you already went the more expensive route on everything but the $30 HD box .... The pid switches and contactors and indicator lights you have could have been purchased for half as much on amazon or ebay... the equivalent pid with manual mode would have been the mypin TD4 which is $33 shipped with a ssr and heatsink included... RTD pt-100 sensor is $6 more and contactors are around $11 a piece... indicator lights are about 50 cents and switches are $2-3 a piece...
also check out the 12v solar fda grade pumps people are using...I have a couple..$20 shipped and they have worked awesome for me so far. the chugger will pump faster but I find im usually dialing my 12v ones down because I dont want too fast of a flow.

 

[P-J]

Well I hate to tell you this but you already went the more expensive route on everything but the $30 HD box .... The pid switches and contactors and indicator lights you have could have been purchased for half as much on amazon or ebay... the equivalent pid with manual mode would have been the mypin TD4 which is $33 shipped with a ssr and heatsink included... RTD pt-100 sensor is $6 more and contactors are around $11 a piece... indicator lights are about 50 cents and switches are $2-3 a piece...
also check out the 12v solar fda grade pumps people are using...I have a couple..$20 shipped and they have worked awesome for me so far. the chugger will pump faster but I find im usually dialing my 12v ones down because I dont want too fast of a flow.

All well said.

I do like to help the members here with wiring plans & diagrams. However I'm limited on the choices of the devices I choose to draw. Your choices are beyond my desire to participate. Can you draw a wiring plan for him???

Oh well... getting old sucks.

P-J

 

[BeantownD]

I actually used a drawing of yours P-J. Still sourcing some parts (fuses holders/terminal strips/receptacles and plugs), but your drawings have been such a huge help with understanding how the system will work.

 

[P-J]

I actually used a drawing of yours P-J. Still sourcing some parts (fuses holders/terminal strips/receptacles and plugs), but your drawings have been such a huge help with understanding how the system will work.

Thanks so much. I rest my case on my drawings and choice of components.
Thanks again.

P-J

(An after thought: The vendors and products I choose to include in my drawings are on a "top vendor list in my mind and in my book".)

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks so much. I rest my case on my drawings and choice of components.
Thanks again.

P-J

(An after thought: The vendors and products I choose to include in my drawings are on a "top vendor list in my mind and in my book".)

Theres nothing wrong at all with the vendor choice above or the brand of pid mentioned above (I say pid only because the switches,contactors and indicators are the same stuff as amazon or ebay carries you just pay double for the convieniance of having it come from stock in the US. and US phone support I assume they give in wiring them up and use?

To be clear the only reason I stated what I did, the way I did was because of the OP's opening statement about it being a budget build and trying to accomplish everything in the most cost saving manner...
the Company above provides much better support for those who need it but at double the cost of getting the equivalent elsewhere...

"My goal is to build a low to moderate budget system. No, this won't be some bling bling thread. It's going to be more like a "if there is a less expensive way to do the same thing, it's for me" kind of thread."

I'm sorry you took offense to that P-J. That was not my intention. I also used your drawings when I built my panel and they work fine with products from "other vendors" its just the screw terminals might be moved around a bit but marked for the same purposes. The only thing I had any trouble figuring out was the pt-100 sensor wiring which I found schematics for.
To be clear I had no Idea you were even affiliated or endorsing the company above. I just assumed that drawings you made used their products because thats what you were familiar with.

As for the 12v and 24Vdc pumps.... I feel they often get a bad rap from people who drop them and break them of try to use ball valves to cut their flow. also many people tried to use too small of a power supply or pump solids like trub through them... if you realize thier limitations and use them correctly as needed I find they work fantatic and with pwm speed controllers you can fine tune the flow and have a multi pump setup for less than half the price of one chugger which for my use is overkill (and also from china BTW) they draw les power off one leg of my spa panel.

 

[Woodbrews]

Looks good, BeantownD. I'm building a very similar panel this weekend with the help of an electrical engineer I know. Would you mind linking to the wiring diagram you're using? Thanks!

 

[atoughram]

I'm happy with the extra $15 or $20 bucks I spent Aubers - the quick disconnect PT100 probes are the BOMB! I could've spent $40 less on MyPin PID and I had a REX sitting here but I wanted them all to match. I am really happy with the SYL-2352 - minimum setup and ROCK solid temp control. I've got a SYL-2362 on my HLT - a bit more finicky but has a manual mode.

Nice work on the panel! I'm going to add a BK panel next and electrify the boil.

 

[BeantownD]

Looks good, BeantownD. I'm building a very similar panel this weekend with the help of an electrical engineer I know. Would you mind linking to the wiring diagram you're using? Thanks!

Here you go!

 

[Woodbrews]

I had not seen that diagram. I'll be using the one in this posthttps://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-official-e-biab-build-thread-269164/#post3263178, which is similar but for the single element. My build will have a single element but will have indicator lights and selector switches instead of lighted pushbutton switches. I'm using a project box from Auber with a pre-drilled slot for one PID. Given all of the holes I'll need to punch for switches and lights, my conduit punch will be on fire! I'm certain the plastic box would have been easier, but the Auber box has some really nice features that made it worth the extra $$ for me.

What's the rationale behind having two elements? HLT and boil kettle?

 

[P-J]

BeantownD,

Here is the diagram as I normally post them:

And as always, click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17"):




I hope this helps everyone interested in it.

P-J

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes HLT (and possibly herms coil) and BK... many use three pids and two element mainly using the third pid for the mashtun temp readout only. Some also use it for a third element in the rims Setup.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm happy with the extra $15 or $20 bucks I spent s - the quick disconnect PT100 probes are the BOMB! I could've spent $40 less on MyPin PID and I had a REX sitting here but I wanted them all to match. I am really happy with the SYL-2352 - minimum setup and ROCK solid temp control. I've got a SYL-2362 on my HLT - a bit more finicky but has a manual mode.

Nice work on the panel! I'm going to add a BK panel next and electrify the boil.

That's cool that you were happy to spend it but again the OP mentioned he wanted to savemenoy were possible and in this case we are talking literally half the cost of the build or more... And for that reason as well as for other considering the same thing I mentioned that there are in fact other options and sources for those really building on a budget or that don't mind shopping around. That's it.

It did take a while for some of my component s to arrive for my extreme budget build..

 

[iijakii]

That's cool that you were happy to spend it but again the OP mentioned he wanted to savemenoy were possible and in this case we are talking literally half the cost of the build or more... And for that reason as well as for other considering the same thing I mentioned that there are in fact other options and sources for those really building on a budget or that don't mind shopping around. That's it.

It did take a while for some of my component s to arrive for my extreme budget build..

It's kind of bad form to tell him how much money he wasted after he bought it, lol. I think you should make a thread about your system though, friend. I've seen some of your posts and it seems like a really economical and smart way to do it. It's nice to post those types of systems to counteract the bling-creep we have very badly on here.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's kind of bad form to tell him how much money he wasted after he bought it, lol. I think you should make a thread about your system though, friend. I've seen some of your posts and it seems like a really economical and smart way to do it. It's nice to post those types of systems to counteract the bling-creep we have very badly on here.

Yes your right I should have worded it better but the thing is I had to say something because this thread isn't just for bean towns benefit we all use these threads to learn from one another... he stated he wanted to build this as cheap as possible and without the bling that often consumes most of us... I wanted others reading this and thinking about doing the same to know ALL their options that's all... there's so much misinformation about what does and doesn't work because of mistakes, assumptions or people quick to blame both on cost or origin of manufacture and that's not always the case.

 

[BeantownD]

Correct Woodbrews- one element for HLT, one for the BK. MLT is a round 10G igloo cooler.

 

[SudsyPaul]

Wicked info/design.

I'm setting up a 40A version for my home. Have the wiring, just need to build a panel, and the cheaper the better.

 

[BeantownD]

As Augiedoggy pointed out, there are definitely cheaper ways to go about a panel/brewery build. I'm not trying for a bargain basement, do it as cheaply as humanly possible kind of build. I'm just finding a balance between a Kal clone build and a bargain basement budget build. That balance for me entails time, money and comfort level with suppliers. I went through Auber because 1) I'm impatient and didn't want to wait for a part to get here from china. 2) P-J specified them in his drawing and frankly, why mess with a proven design? 3) Auber is a company I can call and deal with very easily should I have questions or issues.

As for the pumps- those 12V solar jobs Augiedoggy mentioned could do the trick, but after sleeping on it a few days and thinking about my process and how I brew, I'd rather spend some of my cash on a pump that can handle some solids in the wort. Will I outfit it with all stainless cam locks? Probably not. Maybe over time I'll upgrade to that.

To me, it's prioritizing where to spend my money. Could I have saved some cash on switches? Yes. Did I have piece of mind knowing I had the right parts in hand according to a technical drawing? Indeed.
Can you do some research and get on ebay and save more money? Absolutely. I could have probably saved like $30.

 

[hunter306]

Availability and ease of acquiring parts definitely played into my decisions regarding the control panel kit as well. Ebrewsupply saved me a ton of hassle buying the kit. Could I have gotten some of the components cheaper? Maybe.

But ebrewsupply put it all in one box and seems to be solid when it comes to fixing problems with orders. I think it's worth it to go with a vendor who will give you some form of customer service should you have trouble. My experience with Ebay parts from Asia has been mixed. If it's bad, it's usually a write off.

I'll be interested to see your panel come together!

 

[SudsyPaul]

How do you plan on cooling you SSR in a plastic case?

I was thinking of aiming the heatsink towards an opening and then mounting a case fan on the opening.

 

[SudsyPaul]

Also... you guys just using Paint for those diagrams, or is there a tool that's better for diagrams.

 

[BeantownD]

How do you plan on cooling you SSR in a plastic case?

I was thinking of aiming the heatsink towards an opening and then mounting a case fan on the opening.

I have a heatsink that will mount externally. If you want to cool internally, you could go with a heatsink and a fan. Search on youtube for Manskirt Brewing+control panel. He went the fan option. Same box as mine.

 

[P-J]

Also... you guys just using Paint for those diagrams, or is there a tool that's better for diagrams.

I use Microsoft Image Composer. It allows me to make components and save them. Then a complete diagram can be assembled and saved as a JPG file.

It just how I do them.

P-J

 

[pfish83]

P-J,

Really beginner question here but I know in most of your diagrams it says "Power Input from main breaker panel is from a 30 amp breaker to a 4 conductor 30 amp receptacle."

Can I run something simple like this (1 PID, 1 5500W Element, 2 pumps) from my dryer power receptacle?

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a heatsink that will mount externally. If you want to cool internally, you could go with a heatsink and a fan. Search on youtube for Manskirt Brewing+control panel. He went the fan option. Same box as mine.

I also went that rout with my enclosure which is the same as yours...I posted pics up here somewhere already... regular 80mm pc powersupply fan (12v) works very well.

 

[augiedoggy]

P-J,

Really beginner question here but I know in most of your diagrams it says "Power Input from main breaker panel is from a 30 amp breaker to a 4 conductor 30 amp receptacle."

Can I run something simple like this (1 PID, 1 5500W Element, 2 pumps) from my dryer power receptacle?

is your dryer outlet three wire or four? you can add a spa panel to either with a gfci and make it work but only the four wire setup will be safe enough to meet code.

 

[augiedoggy]

here are some pics of my fan setup as well as my extreme budget build ($220) as you can see you can cram quite a bit in this panel I am replacing and reorganizing the front panel layout.

 

[ingchr1]

P-J,

Really beginner question here but I know in most of your diagrams it says "Power Input from main breaker panel is from a 30 amp breaker to a 4 conductor 30 amp receptacle."

Can I run something simple like this (1 PID, 1 5500W Element, 2 pumps) from my dryer power receptacle?

It's likely that the wire into your receptacle has four wires in it. Check, and if so you should be able to change it to a four wire along with the plug on your dryer. That's what I'm doing with mine. Costs about $35. Just picked up the receptacle and plug tonight.



You should still also add a GFCI somewhere in that input circuit.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's likely that the wire into your receptacle has four wires in it. Check, and if so you should be able to change it to a four wire along with the plug on your dryer. That's what I'm doing with mine. Costs about $35. Just picked up the receptacle and plug tonight.



You should still also add a GFCI somewhere in that input circuit.

Yes very important to add a gfci to the circuit... 220v is more dangerous than 120v when it comes to electrocution. they both can kill but 220 can do it instantly so Ive been told.

 

[hio3791]

<NERD_TRAP>
It's the amperage that kills, not the voltage. Takes less than 1 amp to kill a person. Therefore 120V will kill you just as dead as 240V. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be a code to install 120V GFCI outlets in the kitchen/bathroom/etc.
</NERD_TRAP>

 

[Brumateur]

<NERD_TRAP>
It's the amperage that kills, not the voltage.

Yes it's true. But amperage defined by your body resistance and a voltage applied. So 120V will gives twice lower amperage at the same conditions in comparison with 240V.

 

[augiedoggy]

<NERD_TRAP>
It's the amperage that kills, not the voltage. Takes less than 1 amp to kill a person. Therefore 120V will kill you just as dead as 240V. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be a code to install 120V GFCI outlets in the kitchen/bathroom/etc.
</NERD_TRAP>

yeah if you want to over analize it... the 220v 30a current availiable at the element end is more likely to kill you and quicker than getting zapped on a 120v 15-20 120v line... theres twice as many hot lines to possibly short and twice as much can go wrong.... I was trying to keep it simple here.

 

[hio3791]

I was trying to keep it simple here.

LOL - I have yet to meet a brewer that tries to keep anything simple!

 

[burkesw]

here are some pics of my fan setup as well as my extreme budget build ($220) as you can see you can cram quite a bit in this panel I am replacing and reorganizing the front panel layout.

What contactor's did you use? The ebay ones I've been able to find are only $5 cheaper after shipping than auberins...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Furnas-Siem...373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3be65a15

 

[augiedoggy]

What contactor's did you use? The ebay ones I've been able to find are only $5 cheaper after shipping than auberins...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Furnas-Siem...373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3be65a15

I used smaller relays rated at 25A and triggered by 24V dc... they are similar to the "magnacraft" ones that trigger on 120v that can be found on ebay.

like these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331082099431?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[burkesw]

Awesome thanks!