New house, new electrical advice needed!

Hello everyone!

Over the past six months I have had a great time with electrical brewing. I started with a 2 x 120 v eBiab system and currently have some stout kettles on order to build my 3 vessel system. I currently have all of the components and a partial panel built to expand for when the kettles come. The plan was to use two 20 amp dedicated circuits to power 4 2kw elements (2 at once).

I planned it this way to be pretty adaptable in terms of power available. I currently live in an appartment where no 240 was available and i figured anywhere I moved next would at least have that available as well. Turns out we bought a house about a year earlier than planned and now i have my sights set on 240.

I have never liked the intensity of the boil i was getting and i would definitely need more than 4000W to fully power my 20 gallon kettles. So now i want to dump my pid's, contactors and everything else and utilized the BCS 462 that I'm using to temp control my conical. I feel like I have gotten the bling panel out of my system and will go with something more permanent with no twistlocks etc. Be on the lookout for a bargain in the for sale forum for everything you need to build a panel, besides the panel...

Now that that is out of the way, the problem:

I was all excited to purchase a new home and turn the double garage into a brewery. The wife was on board as she loves drinking the homebrew as much as I do. We are inspecting the house and boom, 100 amps for the whole house. On top of that, we are house poor (standard). So I was bummed for a little. Until I found that their is an AC unit running on a 220v 30 amp circuit. We live in a place that needs the ac maybe five days a year, so now the wheels start turning.

The AC is about a 50 foot run through the attic away from the garage. My plan is to someone tie into that circuit and run some 10/3 cable through the attic to a 50 amp spa panel situated in the brew area. As long as I don't run them both at the same time, the breaker won't trip. Is it that easy? What is the best/safest way to merge the two circuits?

I was thinking about using 3 din mountable terminal blocks that can handle the load. such as these:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#din-rail-mount-terminal-blocks/=r3a1c6

Just cut the current the run to the ac in the attic and connect it up. Please tell me it is that easy!

Last side note. Do you think it is better to splurge now on some 6/3 wire just in case I ever upgrade my panel to 200 amp service? Is there a big price increase? Then I could run 50 amps for back to backs. Not sure if it is as easy as I'm making it sound.

Thanks for the input!

ps. sorry for the essay, just excited

Ok, the AC is 50' from the garage, how far is the garage from the panel?

wilserbrewer said:

Ok, the AC is 50' from the garage, how far is the garage from the panel?

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The AC is about 5 feet around the corner from the panel, but wired through the attic. The garage is 50' from both.

I dont see a problem with that - My 50a brewery circuit is shared with a spa. When I brew, I shut the spa off for the day so that I dont pop a breaker.

I believe this is the wire that I from the breaker to the outlet.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-6-3-NM-Wire-Black-By-the-Foot-63950099/204632777

If the AC unit is only 5 feet from the panel, my vote goes to running a dedicated line from the panel to the garage. 5 more feet means you've done it the right way and I'm assuming you'll need to install a GFCI breaker anyway (in lieu of the standard breaker that the AC unit exists on).

Is the issue that you don't have any open breaker positions in the main box?

hunter306 said:

If the AC unit is only 5 feet from the panel, my vote goes to running a dedicated line from the panel to the garage. 5 more feet means you've done it the right way and I'm assuming you'll need to install a GFCI breaker anyway (in lieu of the standard breaker that the AC unit exists on).

Is the issue that you don't have any open breaker positions in the main box?

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Ya, sorry, should have mentioned that the box is maxed out. And if possible I want to be able to operate both the AC and brewery without any switches or complications. Obviously not at the same time. I'll accomplish the GFCI with the spa panel.

The right way would probably be to get 200 amp service and install a new panel with a subpanel in the garage, but that is also the expensive way.

any reason why this can't be used?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569

bemerritt said:

any reason why this can't be used?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569

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It's AWG 10 - only good for 30amps - You need AWG 6 for 50 amps.

If all you're wanting is a 30 amp circuit, that wire will work fine.

bemerritt said:

Ya, sorry, should have mentioned that the box is maxed out. And if possible I want to be able to operate both the AC and brewery without any switches or complications. Obviously not at the same time. I'll accomplish the GFCI with the spa panel.

The right way would probably be to get 200 amp service and install a new panel with a subpanel in the garage, but that is also the expensive way.

Click to expand...

Some breakers come in a slim version, taking half the space of a breaker. Take a look at your panel and make a trip to HD or lowes.

kevreh said:

Some breakers come in a slim version, taking half the space of a breaker. Take a look at your panel and make a trip to HD or lowes.

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GE makes mini breakers. Most others make tandems. Get two of those and you will can make the room to fit a 2 pole breaker. There is nothing wrong with properly splicing the ac feed in the attic but for your plans, I would want at least 50A.

lschiavo said:

There is nothing wrong with properly splicing the ac feed in the attic but for your plans, I would want at least 50A.

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Not that it matters, and while it would work fine sharing a circuit with the AC, as long as you don't run both at once, but does a central AC unit require a dedicated circuit to meet code?

wilserbrewer said:

Not that it matters, and while it would work fine sharing a circuit with the AC, as long as you don't run both at once, but does a central AC unit require a dedicated circuit to meet code?

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You are most likely correct. I didn't think about that and I don't have my book handy to check right now. All the more reason to just put in a dedicated 50A feed.

Are you sure you need to turn off the AC when brewing?

In both my houses I had a 100A panel, AC, and a few other things and never had issues pulling ~23A to brew even with the AC running in the middle of the summer.

Kal

kal said:

Are you sure you need to turn off the AC when brewing?

In both my houses I had a 100A panel, AC, and a few other things and never had issues pulling ~23A to brew even with the AC running in the middle of the summer.

Kal

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I believe the OP was proposing sharing the same circuit.

Yes - my point was that maybe he doesn't need to share the circuit at all. Maybe I misread, but I thought he wanted to share the circuit to avoid overloading his 100A panel. I'm suggesting installing a separate 30A 2-pole circuit for brewing.

Kal

kal said:

Yes - my point was that maybe he doesn't need to share the circuit at all. Maybe I misread, but I thought he wanted to share the circuit to avoid overloading his 100A panel. I'm suggesting installing a separate 30A 2-pole circuit for brewing.

Kal

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I agree. A dedicated circuit would be the best option IMO. Most large loads in houses are very intermittent. It is easy enough to not use the range or dryer during a brew session if one is concerned about overloading their service. One can calculate their average draw from their power bill and should be able to request peak loads from the power company. It is surprising how low they usually are.

Yup - that's basically my point: People use a lot less power at once than they think. Even a stove rated at 40A max or a dryer rated at 30A max rarely even draws anywhere near that much regularly.

Kal

I'm an electrician here is what I would do. I would run a 8/3 from my panel to my garage and either get some tandems or set a 50 amp sub panel in the garage and move the garage circuits to the sub panel for the room you need either way just use a small 8 space sub panel so you can expand later if you want.

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