Wyeast 1968 Re-activation

I'm wondering if anybody has ever seen 1968 have the following behavior:

I pitched a 2 liter starter into a 1.060 brown ale. The fermentation temp was held at about 67F. Fermentation exhibited the usual vigorous activity for about 5 days then slowed way down. I checked the gravity, and it was still pretty high at 1.024, but the cap had fallen and the beer was pretty clear. I attempted to rouse the yeast once a day for the next few days by swirling the carboy. After a few days, I stopped rousing, but the fermentation continued at a slow rate, exhibiting an airlock bubble every 3 to 4 minutes. This went on for the next 2-3 weeks, with no noticeable change in activity. At some point I checked the gravity, and it had fallen to about 1.020. Now, in its fourth week of primary fermentation, activity has has suddenly ramped way up. There is a modest foam cap (bubbles mainly), and the airlock activity is back up to a bubble every few seconds instead of every few minutes. It's been doing this for 2 to 3 days now. I have never seen anything like this before. I have used this yeast about 4 times, and each time the fermentation process seemed different. The last batch fell to 1.017 within days. Any ideas? I'm hoping that I didn't infect it when I checked the gravity. The bucket of Star-San that I have been using is a little old and may be suspect.

1968 is notorious for having re-started fermentations.

Mine often restart after I rack from primary to secondary. I expect it, in fact.

MC

Thanks for the reply. I was definitely leaning toward that being the answer. What I didn't mention in my original post was that the first two times I used this yeast, I must have bottled the beer before it was done. The 'final' gravity seemed a bit high, but the fermentation appeared done, so I bottled. A few bottles of the second batch sat at room temperature for a few weeks and ended up as gushers. So that was my first indication that 1968 might take a rest before finishing up. The last batch made it to 1.017 pretty fast with none of that funny behavior. I'm not sure what the difference was.

I have not racked this beer at all yet. I rarely use a secondary these days. But maybe racking is a good way to kickstart the second fermentation. I will try that next time to see if it speeds things up a bit. It's been a month already!

Misplaced_Canuck said:

1968 is notorious for having re-started fermentations.

Mine often restart after I rack from primary to secondary. I expect it, in fact.

MC

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I only use ESB 1968 for my beers. I have seen it do some "odd" things over the last year and change, that I had not seen before with other yeasts. Will it spontaneously restart? Yup. will just raising the temp restart it? Yup. The only things I can say for sure about ESB 1968, is, it does two things very well: flocculation like crazy, and very clean malt forward beers.

That's another thing that I didn't mention in my original post: I increased the temperature by a couple of degrees about a week ago for the diacetyl rest. That's probably what kick started the second fermentation. I've seen yeasts show a bit of activity after a racking to a secondary, but not with a modest temperature increase in the primary. And definitely not this level of activity. It's been several days since the yeast started this second fermentation, and it's still going strong. I hope that it slows down soon. I don't want it to drop more than a few points.

MindenMan said:

I only use ESB 1968 for my beers. I have seen it do some "odd" things over the last year and change, that I had not seen before with other yeasts. Will it spontaneously restart? Yup. will just raising the temp restart it? Yup. The only things I can say for sure about ESB 1968, is, it does two things very well: flocculation like crazy, and very clean malt forward beers.

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Enbotellabuey said:

That's another thing that I didn't mention in my original post: I increased the temperature by a couple of degrees about a week ago for the diacetyl rest. That's probably what kick started the second fermentation. I've seen yeasts show a bit of activity after a racking to a secondary, but not with a modest temperature increase in the primary. And definitely not this level of activity. It's been several days since the yeast started this second fermentation, and it's still going strong. I hope that it slows down soon. I don't want it to drop more than a few points.

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It should be "all done" after the second coming.

MC

Just make sure it's done its second round of munching; I bottled up a best bitter (1.043 OG) done with WY1968 that 'finished' at 1.012, primed to 1.7 vols, and then the stuff restarted in the bottles and dropped down to 1.007. Four exploded, and the rest were excitingly carbonated - usually poured a 12 oz bottle into a gallon jug and waited the 20 mins for the foam to turn back into beer.

I wanted to follow up on this thread. It's been about 5 weeks, and the 1968 is still not done fermenting. There isn't much visible activity, but there is still pressure on the carboy side of the airlock. I took a sample, and the current gravity is 1.010-1.012, which is way below what I was shooting for. Also, the taste is pretty dry and a bit hot. I was hoping for a malty taste. My recipe had a fair amount of low fermenting stuff (crystal, dextrine, oats), and I mashed at 160F. But I still ended up with pretty high attenuation--over 80%. I don't detect any signs of infection. I really want to used this yeast, but I can't seem to get any consistency with it. Any thoughts?

Just wondering about the yeast before you pitched... Was it washed? Was it made from a starter and cold crashed? Pitched at high krausen? Wondering if this changed anything.

BreezyBrew said:

Just wondering about the yeast before you pitched... Was it washed? Was it made from a starter and cold crashed? Pitched at high krausen? Wondering if this changed anything.

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It was new yeast that I used to make the 2L starter. I didn't cold crash it--I just threw the whole thing in after about 24 hours of active fermentation. This is the first time I did a starter with this yeast. I usually just pitch one smack pack for a 4 gallon batch. My LHBS suggested the starter because I have seen odd fermentation with in the previous batches. But this time was by far the oddest. I think the beer will end up pretty good. But I really wanted it to finish about 1.018 with a complete fermentation. I've only gotten that to happen once in 5 tries. It either finishes high or low. I'm about to give up on this recipe.

Any updates? How did the beer turn out/what did it finish at? I'm currently having a similar issue with this yeast for a brown porter. First time I've ever used it. Vigorous fermentation early on (glad I used a blow off tube), after 3 weeks at around 66'F I was looking at a pretty clear beer sitting at 1.021. I'd love to get it to drop another 5 points or so. I just moved it to a warmer location and swirled the carboy some. Hoping it will pick back up. Sample tasted great, just a bit sweet.

I was toying with the idea of racking it to secondary with another small starter, any thoughts? Think I should just wait it out and keep it warmer/rouse occasionally?

carboywonder said:

Any updates? How did the beer turn out/what did it finish at? I'm currently having a similar issue with this yeast for a brown porter. First time I've ever used it. Vigorous fermentation early on (glad I used a blow off tube), after 3 weeks at around 66'F I was looking at a pretty clear beer sitting at 1.021. I'd love to get it to drop another 5 points or so. I just moved it to a warmer location and swirled the carboy some. Hoping it will pick back up. Sample tasted great, just a bit sweet.

I was toying with the idea of racking it to secondary with another small starter, any thoughts? Think I should just wait it out and keep it warmer/rouse occasionally?

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The beer just kept on fermenting slowly. I didn't want it to go any lower than 1.010, so cold crashed it and kegged it. I think that it would have fallen several more points if I let it finish on its own. I've had a couple of similar batches finish below 1.005. That is way too low for this type of beer. I'm fairly certain that I had some type of infection. The beer doesn't taste sour, so maybe I got another yeast in there at some point. I have been pretty lax about cleaning my equipment with detergent. I am now a big believer in PBW/oxiclean. I soaked the growler that I used to make my starter in PBW, and I was amazed to see how hard the PBW was working. There may have been something in that growler that infected my starter.

With your beer, it's hard to say--especially since I have had limited success with this yeast and this recipe. A FG of 1.021 may be reasonable, but it depends on your SG. I had a couple batches of this recipe (SG = 1.055) finish at about 1.020. But one of the batches continued to ferment in the bottle and became a gusher. But that may be this infection problem. I think that rousing the yeast sounds like a good idea. Maybe raising the temperature too. I have no experience in pitching new yeast with a 'stuck' fermentation, so I don't know about that. Good luck with it. Let me know what happens.

1968 is a somewhat tricky yeast when it comes to temp management and needs a stepped-up ferment temp profile beginning around 64 and finishing in the 68-70 zone.

If it's too warm at the beginning it throws lots of esters. If you start it nice and cool around 63-64 but fail to raise it after visible activity tapers off, it can drop out before it's done. Once it drops, the cake is really firm (almost like rubber) and can be darn near impossible to rouse just by swirling.

BigFloyd said:

1968 is a somewhat tricky yeast when it comes to temp management and needs a stepped-up ferment temp profile beginning around 64 and finishing in the 68-70 zone. If it's too warm at the beginning it throws lots of esters. If you start it nice and cool around 63-64 but fail to raise it after visible activity tapers off, it can drop out before it's done. Once it drops, the cake is really firm (almost like rubber) and can be darn near impossible to rouse just by swirling.

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Is there a difference between WY1968 and WLP002? Is one easier to use or are they exactly the same?

PRE66_6TART said:

Is there a difference between WY1968 and WLP002? Is one easier to use or are they exactly the same?

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I've always understood them to be the same strain (used in Fuller's ESB).

BigFloyd said:

If you start it nice and cool around 63-64 but fail to raise it after visible activity tapers off, it can drop out before it's done.

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4 weeks in the primary...stuck at 1026 (from 1066). I bottled the now-sweet porter. I think I will bomb-proof the carbonation area.

Jhoss

I love the flavor profile of 1968 but I have also had the same problem. Last year I brewed a Robust Porter and used 1968. It was fermented in the mid 60's and finished at 1.020...a little too high. I worked up the yeast cake, warmed it to the low 70's and eventually got it to 1.018. I bottled it and gave it no thought. The flavor was fantastic and within 3 weeks, it was all gone (much of it given away at a party). Fast forward several months...I find a few bottles stuck away I had forgotten about. I chilled them down and when I opened one...it was a fountain...way over carbed. I went back and checked my records...it was carbed to 1.7 or 1.8 was all. What happened? I read thru many posts about this same thing. I opened another bottle, foamed it into a 1 gallon picture and let it settle out. Upon testing, it had chewed it's way down to 1.012 in the bottle. The flavor had also changed, it was thin and cider like. This is also mentioned in several posts here on homebrewtalk. There is some real good info about this yeast here. It seems this yeast is best used if kegging and not bottling. But on that same note, I just used this yeast on a Mild and it went down to 1.007 with no problem and no problem in the bottle. The problem looks to be with porters, stouts, etc with more complex sugars(???). Again, I love this yeast but I have reservations on using it too and am cautious now when I do.

Tony

If I have another high finishing gravity beer with 1968 in the future, I may also bottle it, wait a week, test open a few and when carbonation is where I like it, I may try to pasteurize it like many here do with cider...maybe like this. Any thoughts?

Tony