Wyeast 1968: Cloudy? WTF?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TAK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
1,094
Reaction score
211
Location
Lincoln
I bottled my first ESB yesterday. This was also my first beer with good temperature control. This was my pilot fermentation inside of a fridge with a digital temp control and a thermowell. I used Wyeast 1968: London ESB Ale. This is supposed to be highly flocculent, “extremely flocculent,” “bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration” they say. Well,… that’s not what I got. I pitched at 63°F. Day 2 at 64°F, day 3 at 65°F. Over this period the fermentation activity looked very healthy with a nice krausen. On day 4 the temp and the krausen began to fall, so I whipped out my FremWrap and held the temp at 65°F. I raised the temp slowly; at day 9 it was 68°F. I kept it there for a few more days for a diacetyl rest and then let it fall back to ambient, probably a couple degrees lower.

As it sat in the fridge during the fermentation, it never seemed to gain much clarity. On day 26 I racked to secondary to dry hop. The first thing I noticed was how cloudy the beer was, and the same thing at bottling yesterday after 5 days of dry hop. I got good attenuation for this yeast, 70%. So… WTF?
 
Maybe the dry hops. I get cloudy beer when I dry hop.

The thing is that it was cloudy before the dry hop addition.

From my experience, even with low flocculent strains, the beers clear pretty well by this time (26 days before dry hop) in the primary.
 
That's a hard one to explain. Even moderately flocculent strains would be fairly clear after 26 days.... even without cold crashing. I assume the actual beer was cloudy in the primary, right? In other words, you didn't siphon over a large portion of the yeast cake and make it cloudy in the secondary, did you?
 
That's a hard one to explain. Even moderately flocculent strains would be fairly clear after 26 days.... even without cold crashing. I assume the actual beer was cloudy in the primary, right? In other words, you didn't siphon over a large portion of the yeast cake and make it cloudy in the secondary, did you?

Correct. In the primary, after the visible fermentation activity in the carboy stopped, it was notably cloudy and that never went away. Then I racked off of the yeast cake into the secondary to dry hop. Nothing cleared during that time, but I'm not surprised. I only secondaried for 5 days to dry hop. It was coudy going in to the secondary and cloudy coming out.
 
Weird. What was your recipe? What temp has it been at since fermentation stopped? Does it smell or taste off at all? Some infections can leave you with cloudy beer.

70% AA isn't great, but that all depends upon the recipe and how you treat the yeast. How did the yeast cake look at the bottom when you transferred it? Was it a pretty typical 1968 brick, or did it look like a 1056 powder?
 
Weird. What was your recipe? What temp has it been at since fermentation stopped? Does it smell or taste off at all? Some infections can leave you with cloudy beer.

70% AA isn't great, but that all depends upon the recipe and how you treat the yeast. How did the yeast cake look at the bottom when you transferred it? Was it a pretty typical 1968 brick, or did it look like a 1056 powder?

10 lbs English Maris Otter Malt
4 oz Simpsons CaraMalt 30–37L
4 oz English Dark Crystal 70–80L
4 oz English Extra Dark Crystal 160L
1 oz Willamette @ 60 min
1 oz (50/50) UK Kent Goldings & Willamette @ 15 min
1 oz UK Kent Goldings @ 10 min
1 oz (50/50) UK Kent Goldings & Willamette @ 5 min
1 oz UK Kent Goldings Whole Leafe for Dry Hop

Once the fermentation appeared to be slowing, I held fermentation at 65°F for the rest of the first week. Then I gently raised it to hold it around 68°F from day 9-14. After that I stopped temp control (to use my gear on the next batch) and ambient temp was probably 66-68°F.

70% attenuation isn't particularly high, but it is on the upper end of the range quoted by Wyeast for this strain.

I can't recall exactly what the cake looked like, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have called it powdery. I think I know what your talking about there.
 
TAK said:
I bottled my first ESB yesterday. This was also my first beer with good temperature control. This was my pilot fermentation inside of a fridge with a digital temp control and a thermowell. I used Wyeast 1968: London ESB Ale. This is supposed to be highly flocculent, “extremely flocculent,” “bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration” they say. Well,… that’s not what I got. I pitched at 63°F. Day 2 at 64°F, day 3 at 65°F. Over this period the fermentation activity looked very healthy with a nice krausen. On day 4 the temp and the krausen began to fall, so I whipped out my FremWrap and held the temp at 65°F. I raised the temp slowly; at day 9 it was 68°F. I kept it there for a few more days for a diacetyl rest and then let it fall back to ambient, probably a couple degrees lower.

As it sat in the fridge during the fermentation, it never seemed to gain much clarity. On day 26 I racked to secondary to dry hop. The first thing I noticed was how cloudy the beer was, and the same thing at bottling yesterday after 5 days of dry hop. I got good attenuation for this yeast, 70%. So… WTF?

Are you sure it's yeast? Could be something else clouding it. Also, do you use any fining agents? Finally, if you're sure it's yeast, what about trying a cold crash?
 
The taste isn't bad at all. It's not like I'm pouring this one out or anything. It could use a bit more mouth feel. I mashed at 150°F, maybe next time I'll go a tad higher. But I can't say for sure until after bottle conditioning.

I'm pretty sure that I used irish moss. I usually do, but I didn't specifically note it, so maybe I missed it. I'm hoping that it will clear up after bottle conditioning and I give them sime time in the fridge.
 
Did you get a good hot break/cold break? I have an English IPA that used S-04 (another very flocculent strain) and it's still very cloudy. My guess is it's not the yeast in either case, just something cosmetic.
 
If the cake at the bottom looked compact, like 1968 usually does, then I'm suspecting the yeast fell out as usual. Which means there might be something else at work. Well, as long as it tastes fine, I suppose all is well. Give it a bit more time, I'd be curious to see how it changes. Of course, if you have pics eventually, that would be good, too.
 
Now I'm thinking it was either poor hot or cold break. I didn't take notes on either, all seemed normal to me as far as I recall. But then again, maybe I don't know exactly what to look for. Am I correct in the following:

Hot Break: Quality of this break is determined by the amount (and maybe density?) of the foam that accumulates right before and and during the start of the boil.
Cold Break: Quality of this break is determined by the volume of trub left behind when transfering out of the kettle (hop matter aside).

I always fill one Newcastle bottle to keep an eye on chill haze, etc. Here's what that bottle looks like. There's a lot of backlight, and you still can't see through the beer.

ESB.jpg
 
TAK said:
Now I'm thinking it was either poor hot or cold break. I didn't take notes on either, all seemed normal to me as far as I recall. But then again, maybe I don't know exactly what to look for. Am I correct in the following:

Hot Break: Quality of this break is determined by the amount (and maybe density?) of the foam that accumulates right before and and during the start of the boil.
Cold Break: Quality of this break is determined by the volume of trub left behind when transfering out of the kettle (hop matter aside).

I always fill one Newcastle bottle to keep an eye on chill haze, etc. Here's what that bottle looks like. There's a lot of backlight, and you still can't see through the beer.

Was this all grain? If so, did you test for starches before lautering?
 
Definitely very hazy. Strange. If you did most everything as usual, I can't account for it. I suppose an incomplete conversion could explain it, as suggested above. Otherwise, I'm stumped.
 
I go straight for the gelatin in secondary before bottling and keging. Crystal clear bear every time with minimal work. Best trick every.
 
i use this yeast a lot, and indeed your situation sounds pretty weird. the only time i have seen something similar with this strain was back in the dark ages when i didn't know how to harvest yeast properly and must have only taken some of the less flocculent yeast. i pitched that in a mild ale, and it never flocculated even after gelatin fining. but it sounds like you are using a fresh pitch. a possibility is a contaminant wild yeast? but then you would expect off flavors and over-attenuation
 
Was this all grain? If so, did you test for starches before lautering?

Yes, this was all grain. I haven't ever tested for starches before. I suppose I should because its easy, but would I have noticed a lower OG and poorer attenuation if I didn't get good conversion? I don't have my notes in front of me, but I know I got typical brew house efficiency on this. I actually overshot my OG because I undershot my volume.
 
My house yeast is 1968, and I have been re pitching on the same starter cake for over a year. I have had a couple of batches that didn't want to clear and those were batches when I didn't get a sufficient hot break which I figured out later. I will say as time has gone on, my attenuation percentage (and my ABV) have been climbing steadily. I now get FG's in the 1.005 to 1.000 range. I have to be careful what my OG's are now, as I can make really "big" beers by "accident". I commonly leave my beer in the primary for three to four weeks as a matter of course so I can avoid any off flavors this yeast may cause. I do swirl my primary at least once a day, starting by day 12 or so and check my hydro reading every three days to see if fermentation has stopped or not.
 
Back
Top