Starter question

Yesterday, around 20 hours ago I made my first starter using a 2000ml flask and stirplate. I dissolved 160 grams of light DME into 1600ml of water and after a 20 minute boil and cool down checked the SG with a refractometer - 1.035. Then I added a vial of WLP007 and some Fermaid yeast nutrient.

I got to say one thing, watching the growing yeast swirling around is amazing, they don't swirl on the bottom so much as shoot up the walls, and at the top center of the fluid is a is a vortex whirlpool. It's fun to watch, as time goes by the yeast grow more and more and fly around inside the wort like lightning bugs on steroids. I think that fluid is no longer wort but more like unhopped beer because the yeast have definitely been feasting, multiplying and doing their thing. I took an SG reading at the 20 hour mark with my refractometer and it was off the scale, meaning well below 1.000. I thought wow is there any food left for these guys to eat? Then realized using a refractomter in an alcohol environment will not be accurate but I don't want to pull a hydrometer sample because that is just too much waste.


I'm not brewing until the day after Thanksgiving and plan to put this starter in the frige once it's done. So my question is. How do you determine a starter is finished?

Sean Terrill has done some great work with creating a better adjustment formula for correcting your refractometer when measuring fermented work. Check it out here Refractometer Estimates of Final Gravity « SeanTerrill.com or here http://seanterrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/fg_calculator_v3.0.xls
Or alternately, if you have Beersmith there is an adjustment for refractometer readings.

A starter is finished in 36 hours tops. It doesn't take long for 100 billion yeast cells to make it through 2 liters of low gravity wort.

Thanks guys. I'm checking out the link now Sulli.

Sulli,

I'm reading through that link you provided and just saying to myself. WOW! I'm not an engineer or scientist but truly appreciate the committment Sean has made to the brewing community. Not done reading through his site yet. Just wanted to tell you thanks for the link.

Cheers!
Dan

bmp

Dan,
On the question of when is the starter done, if you are using a stir plate you will see the yeast flock out of suspension and it will change color to a milkery version of the starter at the beginning. Note that as the yeastises go to work the CO2 will bring a slight lighting of the starter but a noticeable color change when the yeast flock will be apparent. Some yeast are such strong flockers (is that a word) that the flask will look like puke being stirred.

Saying that a starter is done in 24hrs or 48hrs or any set time is crap. I have had a starter go within 16hrs from none to done others like the current one are probably going to be in around 30hrs. Some really old yeast can take a bit to get going and can take 48hrs or even longer. Go off color change as once the yeast have flocked they are done doing all they are going to do.

Clem

Clem,
Thank you for the advice. The little guys are still going strong (24hrs) but I will keep an eye out over the next 12 hours or so for a change in color.

Dan

Dan said:

Clem,
Thank you for the advice. The little guys are still going strong (24hrs) but I will keep an eye out over the next 12 hours or so for a change in color.

Dan

Click to expand...

This isn't really an indication of "done-ness" as not all yeast are highly flocculant. Some yeast have very low flocculance, and especially with a stir bar spinning you aren't going to see any real evident change in appearance. I have a starter on my counter top right now that's been going since Thursday night. It looks exactly the same as it did when I pitched the yeast. I know it's done, and if I turn it off the yeast will drop. Only certain highly flocculant strains like wlp007 will clump despite being agitated.

i tend to overkill and just get it started a solid three days beforehand. i'm not concerned with it being "done" as it isn't a bad thing to pitch fermenting yeast. three days, cold crash, done.

Makes sense. Thankyou MrManifesto!

Thank you all for the responses.

Cheers!
Dan

I just made a starter on a stirplate. The yeast WLP007, had a "Best if used before" date of February 26, 2012. Beersmith uses a "package date" to determine yeast viablity. Does any body know the time span White Labs uses between the best buy and package date?

Hold on.

I felt guilty of laziness asking a question that is probably available with a few keystrokes so looked up White Labs website. In their amatuer's beer brewers FAQ, WL state the shelf life is four months (and then go on to explain in more detail a little yeastie's life). So I'm thinking if four months is the shelf life then the best if used before by date minus four months would probably be a pretty good reference for the package date.

I realize liquid yeast if not shipped in a refrigerator during hot summer months probably wouldn't make it to their shelf life date; then again maybe that is a factor WL puts into the before by date during the peak temperature months. Don't know.

Hope this might help somebody with the same question as mine.

Cheers!

going to have to say RDWHAHB.

WLP007 is some rugged stuff. You'd have to boil it to kill it I think...

I can tell you that for WLP007, your starter is done when it looks like eggdrop soup. I just stepped up a bunch of this for a Barleywine and each time it looked like clumps of yeast being tossed around when it was done. I had one that took 24 hours and one that took less than 12. I think rule is, that there is no rule.

I have a starter question, I just did my first one about 14 hours ago. Boiled water, added DME, cooled in the flask, then added the yeast, and topped with an airlock (per the directions that were given to me). About 30 minutes after being placed on my stir plate I got airlock activity. Then when I got up this morning (about 7 hours after place yeast in the flask) there was no activity.

Should I make up some more DME and put it back into the flask to get things going again before I pitch into my fermentor?

Or should I just pitch the current contents into my fermentor?

Clementine said:

...Some yeast are such strong flockers (is that a word) that the flask will look like puke being stirred...

Click to expand...

Meet the Flockers. A brewing movie.

First of all it is old thinking on using an airlock. Current practice is to use a foam stopper or cover loosely with sanitized foil. During the start of fermentation of a starter it is best for the yeast to have plenty of oxygen. After the co2 is being produced there is argument as to whether the oxygen can even get to the wort.

If you are not using a stir plate swirl it up every time you pass by and let it go about 36-48 hours. With a stir plate I would let it continue for a total of 18-24 hours.

You got fermentation of your starter so you should now have plenty of yeast. There are still a lot who say they never make starters and only pitch one vial/pack and get good beer so you are good no matter what.

You could put the starter in the refrigerator until the yeast drop out of suspension and see how much is across the bottom of the flask. I have seen differing opinions on how much should be from between 1/8 inch and 1/4 inch. So, if you are in there somewhere, Again, good to go.

"You got fermentation of your starter so you should now have plenty of yeast. There are still a lot who say they never make starters and only pitch one vial/pack and get good beer so you are good no matter what."

I am using a starter, thanks for the info about the airlock. Sounds like I got some older directions.

Sounds like I would be good to pitch the starter into my fermentor when I get home. The stir plate would be going for about 24-26 hours by then. The starter has definitely changed color.

I was just worried about the yeast consuming all of the sugars and become dormant, does this happen? The wort has been sitting a couple of days, waiting for my stir plate to arrive, do I need to aerate the wort again before pitching my starter?

Sorry for all the questions.

Dormant, of course, is very different than dead. Dormant yeast jump right back into party mode in the presence of sweet wort (don't you?)

You have 2 options with a starter
- pitch at high krausen, when yeast are active
- ferment out starter all the way, put in fridge, yeast settle to bottom, decant liquid off top, and pitch dormant slurry

Both work great. Active is often better, unless your starter volume is huge relative to beer volume and/or would dilute/change the style and/or add oxidized wort.

TyTanium said:

Dormant, of course, is very different than dead. Dormant yeast jump right back into party mode in the presence of sweet wort (don't you?)

You have 2 options with a starter
- pitch at high krausen, when yeast are active
- ferment out starter all the way, put in fridge, yeast settle to bottom, decant liquid off top, and pitch dormant slurry

Both work great. Active is often better, unless your starter volume is huge relative to beer volume and/or would dilute/change the style and/or add oxidized wort.

Click to expand...

Awesome thanks!!! I think I will make up some more DME to make sure the yeast is active then throw it in.

"Dormant yeast jump right back into party mode in the presence of sweet wort (don't you?)" might be using this quote again!!! Hilarious.