Lagering with no temp control

Hey all,

I currently live in a little studio in the city, so space is limited to say the least. My storage space limits me one fermenter at a time, and it's really just a corner that doesnt get sunlight and has a somewhatstable temp.

Being said, my only hope for lagering at temps between 35 and 50 degrees fahrenheit is to leave my windows open in the winter. Should I avoid attempting any recipes that include lager yeast? Some of the recipes in Papazian's JOH advise to not worry about the temp control.

Basically can I just make them with the lager yeast at any temp, or should I stick to the ales for now?

Thanks

PS- I tried searching for the answer but couldn't find it.

Get a large enough rubbermaid container to hold your fermenter and fill it with ice water, regularly swapping out ice until your fermenter reaches lager fermentation temps.

Then, just keep adding ice daily to keep the temp low. When it's time for a D-rest (about 80% of your target attenuation), just pull the fermenter out and let it warm up to room temp.

When it's done, bottle and carb as normal, then put your bottles in the fridge for 3 weeks to lager.

Oh and by the way, the colder temperatures require a larger pitch of yeast to avoid generating esters at the start of fermentation. Consider making a starter, or pitching multiple vials.

Thanks for that info! But what if I am feeling a little lazy and not up to swapping all that ice in and out? (We don't have an ice maker, and running to the store daily sounds like a hassle).

Is it absolutely necessary to bring it to colder temperatures, or will the yeast be unable to work its magic?

If you can't keep the temps steady at about 58 at the warmest, it would be best to not use lager yeast. You should look into either a kolsch or alt yeast. Both are very clean ale yeasts. The other option would be either Cali lager, or saflager 23. Both of those lager yeasts retain some lager characteristics even up to 65.

Getzinator said:

Thanks for that info! But what if I am feeling a little lazy and not up to swapping all that ice in and out? (We don't have an ice maker, and running to the store daily sounds like a hassle).

Is it absolutely necessary to bring it to colder temperatures, or will the yeast be unable to work its magic?

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Do you have ice cube trays?? You can also freeze 2-liter bottles of water which can be swapped in and out in shifts.

The yeast will still ferment at ale temperatures, but you won't get the clean characteristics typically associated with lagers.

I understand the desire to avoid hassle, but trust me when I say lagers take a lot more work than ales.

bernerbrau said:

Get a large enough rubbermaid container to hold your fermenter and fill it with ice water, regularly swapping out ice until your fermenter reaches lager fermentation temps.

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You'll want to use an insulated Rubbermaid container, of course.

I'm not adverse to doing some work, the swapping of the ice just sounded a little messy, and SWMBO is being lenient enough with everything sitting in the corner of the room. Though I do really like the idea of freezing some water bottles. I could possibly get a box, insulate it with towels and tuck the water bottles in right next to it. Questions, thoughts, concerns on that method?

A temp controlled chest of sorts for lagering is a definite purchase for me when I upgrade my living space.

Also: What about a "California Common" or "Steam" type beer? That uses a lager-type yeast, right?

Getzinator said:

I could possibly get a box, insulate it with towels and tuck the water bottles in right next to it. Questions, thoughts, concerns on that method?

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It's been done:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer/chiller/chiller.PDF

Be aware that condensation from the ice will cause moisture and probably saturate the cardboard, giving you a mess.

Getzinator said:

Also: What about a "California Common" or "Steam" type beer? That uses a lager-type yeast, right?

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You can certainly do this, but it won't be a lager. You'll want to make sure you use a california lager yeast. Otherwise, the esters produced won't be to style.

I can't access that at work, but thanks for the link!
My thought is lining whatever box I end up using with a trashbag.

The cali-style lager yeast is probably a good choice for now, until I can get some materials together. This weekend is only my third brew ever, so I am not overly concerned with how it turns out, as long as it turns out beer.

Thanks for the help! It's members like you that made me buy the membership. This forum is so useful.

Back when I lived in an apartment, I considered pretty much every option out there for making lagers without actual temperature control. In the end I waited until I moved out and got a chest freezer for fermenting. I'm really glad I did because I've had several lagers that fermented warmer than they should have and weren't lagered as long as they should have. They weren't bad. Just not nearly as good as they could've been. If I'd made one like that, it would've been a long time before I tried them again.

I would try to make friends with some other local brewers and see if you can split a batch with someone who has temp control. Maybe offer to provide the propane tank for the brew session in return for being able to ferment in their chamber. I've actually offered up fermenting/lagering space several times buy haven't had any takers.

That isn't a bad idea at all turkeyjerky214, but knowing myself and how hard it is to maintain a normal schedule, I would most likely avoid arrangements with other people right now. If someone else ended up doign all the work, or a batch didn't come out right I would feel terrible.

Sounds like most lager-style recipes are off the table until I can make that investment.

bernerbrau said:

Get a large enough rubbermaid container to hold your fermenter and fill it with ice water, regularly swapping out ice until your fermenter reaches lager fermentation temps.

Then, just keep adding ice daily to keep the temp low. When it's time for a D-rest (about 80% of your target attenuation), just pull the fermenter out and let it warm up to room temp.

When it's done, bottle and carb as normal, then put your bottles in the fridge for 3 weeks to lager.

Oh and by the way, the colder temperatures require a larger pitch of yeast to avoid generating esters at the start of fermentation. Consider making a starter, or pitching multiple vials.

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So lagering can be done after carbing? Cool. In the winter we heat our garage to keep it 45-50, so the fermentation part is fine, I was always worried about the laggering phase.

Sorry to hijack

Getzinator said:

Sounds like most lager-style recipes are off the table until I can make that investment.

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You might try a Kolsch. It's not quite a lager, but Kolsch yeast is clean-fermenting at higher temps and is normally lagered after fermentation is done.

That sounds like a good choice. I'm not familiar with Kolsch, though. What kind of a beer is it?

Getzinator said:

That sounds like a good choice. I'm not familiar with Kolsch, though. What kind of a beer is it?

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It's a Kolsch.

It's a crisp clean wonderful German ale. http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style06.php#1c

By the way, lagers are tough to do at room temperature, but it can be done. Here's my Yooper Lagerator:



The hard part is keeping fermentation at 50 degrees, because the "lagering" itself is easy as you just do it as cold as you can. By swapping out frozen water bottles once a day in a 60 degree room, I can easily hold 50 degrees. Then when it's time to lager, I just drop in more frozen water bottles and try to keep it at 34 degrees for 6 weeks.

Nifty! I'll have to look into a larger cooler like that.

Also: You did a bad thing by linking me to the BJCP beer descriptions. How am I supposed to get any work done now?