Blowout on aisle 3

I brewed up a double blonde yesterday with 2 packs of notty. Today, around noon, I looked at the fermenter (bucket) and noticed it was buldgy. Everywhere. The airlock wasn't bubbling at all. So I pulled the airlock and get sprayed in the face with foam. I've attempted to put the airlock back in, but it results in the same scenario.

This is where I am. I'm leaving the airlock out. As far as I'm concerned, as long as CO2 is coming out, no air/particles will make their way in. It is creating quite a mess but I'd rather do this than have something blow up in my basement...again.

I can imagine there are inherent contamination issues here. However I want to know if anybody has just left the lid on while removing JUST the airlock? Seems like it should be fine. I'm not worried, just curious. Thanks.

First time I've had something this tremendous happen as well.

A simple solution would be fastening a blow off tube. Take a piece of your racking tubing and stick it in the hole of the bucket lid, then take the other end of the tubing and submerse it in a bucket of star san solution. The excess beer will flow in to the blow off bucket, and contaminants will be kept out of the bucket.

I attempted to use one of my racking tubes as a blowoff valve submerged in solution, however it's not working well. The amount of pressure seems to great for the vessel to overcome. I'll try one more, then I'll get back to you.

You might be able to find a piece of vinyl tubing large enough that it will fit tight into the hole where the airlock goes. With a tight fit my might remove the rubber grommet and jam the tubing in.

I suggest that you start EVERY fermentation with a blow off tube set up.

Good news. I was able to place my larger racking hose on my airlock unit. After trimming my airlock, as to allow thicker items through, and sanitizing, I was able to make it work. I just hope nothing nasty happens to it while I'm asleep tonight.

It's still all buldgy like a bull moose...

That should work. I assume by "trimming the airlock" you meant cutting the little X part off the tip. I did the same setup and have used it several times with no problem.

For future reference you might also want to look in to controlling the fermentation temp. I'm not sure what temp your beer is at, but I'm betting it's on the warm side. This will cause more violent fermentation like what you're experiencing.

SteveHeff said:

It's still all buldgy like a bull moose...

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I can see that from the photo. At this point you might be beyond blow off tube success. If that's the case you can pop off the lid on your bucket and just let it sit loosely on top of the bucket. Then in a day or two when it settles down you can snap it back on.

Thanks, all. I did in fact trim the "X" off of the tip. Worked very well. As for my temps, oh yeah. Of course it's too warm! I tried to get it under control before I pitched my yeast. The coolest area of my home is my closet in the den. Even that is only 1-2 degrees cooler than the rest of the house. Last I checked, my bucket temp was right around 74. It was down to 70 last night, but that was before the ferm really starting happening.

You might want to try using a swamp cooler to keep the temps down from now on.

Just get a big round Rubbermaid tub, put the fermenter in it, fill with water up to the same level that the beer is at, add frozen water bottles as needed to keep the water temp low. Change the frozen water bottles twice a day. When I used a swamp cooler I typically kept the water about 8-10 degrees cooler than my desired fermentation temp. On a typical ale your ferm temp might be around 65F, so shoot for 55-58F water in the tub. After about 5 days or so you can let the temp of the water in the tub rise to 65F and everything will stabilize.

Stauffbier said:

You might want to try using a swamp cooler to keep the temps down from now on.

Just get a big round Rubbermaid tub, put the fermenter in it, fill with water up to the same level that the beer is at, add frozen water bottles as needed to keep the water temp low. Change the frozen water bottles twice a day. When I used a swamp cooler I typically kept the water about 8-10 degrees cooler than my desired fermentation temp. On a typical ale your ferm temp might be around 65F, so shoot for 55-58F water in the tub. After about 5 days or so you can let the temp of the water in the tub rise to 65F and everything will stabilize.

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Noted.

Stauffbier said:

You might want to try using a swamp cooler to keep the temps down from now on.

Just get a big round Rubbermaid tub, put the fermenter in it, fill with water up to the same level that the beer is at, add frozen water bottles as needed to keep the water temp low. Change the frozen water bottles twice a day. When I used a swamp cooler I typically kept the water about 8-10 degrees cooler than my desired fermentation temp. On a typical ale your ferm temp might be around 65F, so shoot for 55-58F water in the tub. After about 5 days or so you can let the temp of the water in the tub rise to 65F and everything will stabilize.

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Also, put an old t-shirt on the bucket so the bottom is in the water. It will wick up the water and evaporate, helping cool the bucket. Every little bit helps.

Cathedral said:

Also, put an old t-shirt on the bucket so the bottom is in the water. It will wick up the water and evaporate, helping cool the bucket. Every little bit helps.

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That's a more traditional method of swamp cooling where you have a lower level of water in the tub, and it wicks up the t-shirt and evaporates creating a cooling effect.

With the method I described the water actually comes up almost to the top of the fermenter rendering the t-shirt trick a little useless and unnecessary. The method I described brings the water in the tub to the same level as the wort/beer in the fermenter. You could certainly still put the t-shirt on. I don't think it would change anything too much, though.

SteveHeff said:

Thanks, all. I did in fact trim the "X" off of the tip. Worked very well. As for my temps, oh yeah. Of course it's too warm! I tried to get it under control before I pitched my yeast. The coolest area of my home is my closet in the den. Even that is only 1-2 degrees cooler than the rest of the house. Last I checked, my bucket temp was right around 74. It was down to 70 last night, but that was before the ferm really starting happening.

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I would advise to start controlling the temp better. You are going to have some awful off flavors from letting it get that warm. 74 on the bucket, it's probably a couple.. 2-3 warmer in the middle of the beer that is fermenting. WAY too hot.

That is part of the issue with the fast and furious fermentation.

I've fermented beer warmer before. I never had anything too funky. But you guys are right. It's too warm. I'm running to Lowe's for a few things, and I think I'll grab a rubbermaid container while I'm at it. Can't hurt to get temps down a bit, even if it is the last 24 hours of very active fermentation. Probably should have anticipated this. I threw in 2 packs of notty and she took off.

One last thing. I'm usually a stickler for getting my temps down. It's never been an issue like this before. The problem was that most of my brew equipment is still packed up in boxes at the moment. I just moved a few weeks ago and haven't had the chance to unpack everything. So my thermometer is still in a box, same with my hydrometer. No clue where they are, I didn't pack them up. A 3rd party vendor did.

I've used ice baths to cool wort in about 40-45 minutes. This bath was a bit smaller than my last house so I went for 60 minutes instead. Without being able to accurately test the temp, I assumed it was low enough and pitched my yeast. That's why my temp was too high. Not because I don't care about my technique but because there was a lack of specific equipment for the process. I just could not not brew. I got the itch and had to scratch it.

SteveHeff said:

Good news. I was able to place my larger racking hose on my airlock unit. After trimming my airlock, as to allow thicker items through, and sanitizing, I was able to make it work. I just hope nothing nasty happens to it while I'm asleep tonight.

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when you're cramming the blowoff hose into the bucket, you don't need the airlock if the hose will fit tight. i just slide the hose down a couple inches through the grommet

The hose is too large to fit. But it fits perfectly onto the airlock.

SteveHeff said:

I've fermented beer warmer before. I never had anything too funky. But you guys are right. It's too warm. I'm running to Lowe's for a few things, and I think I'll grab a rubbermaid container while I'm at it. Can't hurt to get temps down a bit, even if it is the last 24 hours of very active fermentation. Probably should have anticipated this. I threw in 2 packs of notty and she took off.

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Nottingham when fermented warm is disgusting.

Have you used it and let it get hot before?

This is the 3rd batch I've brewed with this yeast. And it's not really about that at this point of the brewing anyhow. It's about correcting what has gone wrong. I'm trying to correct it the best way possible. I now have the bucket in a large round bucket filled with 68 degree water, up to the top of the wort. I will be chucking in some ice cubes as soon as they freeze. My plan is to hold the water at about 60 for the night. I'll check on it tomorrow AM and figure if I need more ice or not.

Many "thank you's" to all who have provided constructive input. The beer is chilling down (hopefully) as I type this.

Don't get it too cold towards the end of fermentation.. Going forward, the first 3-4 days are the most important to keep temps in check for fusels and phenols and all the unwanted off flavors that happen when yeast get to go wild in a warm temp. Not only that, but the temp picks up the most when it's in it's most active phase during those days.

Towards the end of that, allow the temp to naturally rise to the temp of your water bath. Say.. 68 or so.. The water won't allow massive temp swings, but it won't keep the wort too cool.

Main point is, that some yeasts need a diacytl rest, and the warmer temp for a day or two help that, and allow the yeast to clean up after themselves.

After that, you can cool it down again really cold to cold crash any yeast that havent flocc'd out when it's at it's final gravity.

I want to figure a timeline to determine possible damage. After having the booze in the cooler overnight, I can definitely tell that the fermentation is slowing. Well, it's either slowing because it's cooler or because the yeast did most of their hard hitting yesterday. I guess I'll find out.

The beer went 30 hours of fermentation before I was able to get it into a swamp cooler. Out of those 30 hours, 8 of them were hard bubbling fermentation. After leaving it in the cooler last night, my temps are down from (highest) 76 down to 70 right now. I'm gently cooling it down instead of crashing it.

I would like to get it to, say, 68 in the next 6 hours. I'll hold it there until Friday morning. I'll remove it from the cooler and allow to come to room temp. I'll transfer to my secondary, pending fermentation is complete on Saturday or Sunday.

Do you guys think that 8 hours of VERY warm ferm will cause those gross off flavors? I also believe I will be using a blow off tube from now on instead of an airlock. Thanks again for the replies.

SteveHeff said:

I want to figure a timeline to determine possible damage. After having the booze in the cooler overnight, I can definitely tell that the fermentation is slowing. Well, it's either slowing because it's cooler or because the yeast did most of their hard hitting yesterday. I guess I'll find out.

The beer went 30 hours of fermentation before I was able to get it into a swamp cooler. Out of those 30 hours, 8 of them were hard bubbling fermentation. After leaving it in the cooler last night, my temps are down from (highest) 76 down to 70 right now. I'm gently cooling it down instead of crashing it.

I would like to get it to, say, 68 in the next 6 hours. I'll hold it there until Friday morning. I'll remove it from the cooler and allow to come to room temp. I'll transfer to my secondary, pending fermentation is complete on Saturday or Sunday.

Do you guys think that 8 hours of VERY warm ferm will cause those gross off flavors? I also believe I will be using a blow off tube from now on instead of an airlock. Thanks again for the replies.

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8 hours isn't that long, but I think you might get something from it.. It won't be optimal. It happened during the most significant time of fermentation, and it's still at, or above 70, which is still high.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I've made plenty of beer, with and without controlling fermentation temp. The ones without, even creeping and allowing them to get high, have an off taste, even with a clean yeast like say.. US 05.. or 1056.

If you can control the first 3-4 days, and keep it cool, I firmly believe you can allow the beer to free rise to temp, and allow it to finish off and clean up before crashing and kegging.

Certain yeast, such as Nottingham are nasty when it gets hot. It will have a fruity ester which is noticeable and might be okay to your taste, or recipe. It can get cidery and fusel tasting and even sour-ish, easier than some strains. It's a yeast that really should be used cooler than normal, almost lager like. It says 70 as the top end, but I've never found anyone that enjoys using an ale yeast at the ceiling temp!

Temp control and yeast control. If you can limit any issues with both, regardless of recipe, and even function of brewing basics, you can make decent to excellent beer.

I guess here is the next suitable question concerning esters: would it be stupid to add a fruit, like a strawberry or raspberry to the secondary, in order to help mask the other "fruitiness" phenols and esters?

I wouldn't worry about it until you taste it.. See what you think of it. If it's drinkable and fine, then roll with it, and learn for the next batch. Water bath with ice bottles for a couple of days and baby sit it. Or use a different strain and babysit it less.

Or get a fridge/freezer and set it and forget it!

I'm not an advocate of adding to a beer that is faulted. I used to do it, and I'll be honest, it rarely ever works out like I would want.

Just see where this goes. Lets hope you didn't have any issues. I had a RIS that got in around 72, with Irish Ale yeast. Blew my bung out of the glass carboy and shot it on the ceiling of my guest bathroom. The beer was a friggin hot mess when it was done. Cherry fruity flavors, hot alcohol.. Brewed it back in Sept last year, and I still can't drink it, and added crap to it to save it.. still taste like junk!

Don't do anything. Cool it down until fermentation appears to slow or stop. Allow it to warm to room temp to clean up anything left from the yeast. Move from there to your choice of packaging, be it bottles or kegs.

My bucket lid is permanently disfigured from the amount of pressure build up. My lid is all bowed out and has no intention (as far as I can tell) of shaping up. Oh well. It's not like I couldn't use another trip to the LHBS for some more equipment.

Try leaving it in the sun for a day or two. If not... new lid time.

So I transferred to my secondary today. 6 days in primary and I'll go around 2 weeks in the secondary, just to help clarify. No evidence of infection so far. Taste test revealed strong hop flavor with little hop nose. Much darker than I anticipated. I'm cautiously optimistic.

After 1 month in the secondary, I did a taste test today. It's a very strong beer. There is definitely off flavors from the warm notty ferm. Here's my question. Do I continue to secondary for another month or should I go straight to bottle conditioning and allow to sit for another month or so?

Strong as in, a strong alcohol flavor? What's the OG and FG of the beer?

Probably are tasting fusel alcohol if the beer isn't above 8 percent abv.

It'll take a long time for those to fade unfortunately. It'll temper down but will not go away completely.

I would bottle if your happy with it thus far and allow it to age out while you slowly drink them.

I was, unfortunately, unable to get gravity readings. Most of my stuff is still packed away in boxes. We're going through a home renovation and I figured I would keep all of my stuff in boxes till the dusty stuff is finished flying. Beersmith figures the beer to be around 10.5%. Given my efficiency numbers, I'll guess about 8%. Strong alcohol ester and taste. And then something bitter (not hops) bites your tongue as you swallow. I'm not too happy with this right now.

I had that same bitterness on the back of the tongue after I had a hot ferment with Notty in an Irish Red. It improved slightly over time, but much. The batch was generally unenjoyable. But I drank it anyway, as a penance. Bummer.

Sounds like fusel alcohols... Not much you can do but sit on it, and let it mellow a bit. It won't really ever go away though, just get smoother maybe with alot of time.

I have time. I wouldn't mind shelving this for a year. I'll have my old fridge set up within a month in my brew room. I'll probably allow these to carb up for 2 months then move them to the fridge at 50 degrees for the remainder of their time (10 months...maybe). Thoughts?

I had a harsh winter ale. Not due to fermentation temperatures though. I did a secondary for 1 month. I left the bottles at room temperature for 2 months and tried one - Harsh. I waited til 6 months and still harsh but getting better. At nine months - still room temperature - they were getting good. Now at a year and a half they are very good.

I don't have enough refrigerator space for a full batch so I keep my bottles at room temperature then chill 6-12 at a time for consumption.