The beer that wasn't to be?

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thetmaxx

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It started when I printed off a recipe from beer smith. Took it to the LHBS and the guy there handed me four pounds of grain for a Irish REd... umm... So beer smith just put down 1 pound of each of the ingredients, not the actual wieght, never had that happen before.

So I just got 9 more pounds of maris and figured it would make something... pluged my new numbers into beer smith and yes something like a stout.

So it has been fermenting for 19 days, and i wanted to bottle it. forgot to take FG reading before putting it in the bottling bucket with the sugar, and then took the reading/// 1.042, OG was 1.062.

Will beer keep fermenting in the bottle? Like if I just leave it alone for a few months? and also should I have left it to ferment longer even though I already put the priming sugar in it? and thirdly how much gravity would priming sugar skew my FG?
 
With that high a FG, if you bottle now, you are asking for explosions. Even taking the priming sugar addition into account.

If you post your fermentation technique, you might get some help on diagnosing what happened.
 
Do you know what kind of grains they were? Was it like 4 pounds of straight caramel malts? Either way that is definitely not a safe FG to bottle.
 
cooked the wort, pitched a tube of wyeast english ale...and put into a 5 gal bucket for a week, then racked to carboy for 2 weeks, holding about 68F. not sure what else you would need to know?

It was 10lbs. maris otter, 1lbs. carared, 1lbs. cara II, and 1lbs. 2 row carmel 60.... So yeah pretty dark

I know that I will start watching SG alot better in the secondary!! also will be going home and opening all the bottles! I think it will have to be a dump @ this point. I could try to throw it nack into the carboy and cross my fingers something happens?

Thanks for the help too glad I asked and not just let them all blow!
 
I didn't realize you DID bottle it already. Open a bottle and see what your gravity is now. Did you add priming sugar, too? What temperature is the beer when you take readings?

Just for reference, priming sugar usually adds about .004 points to gravity. You are about 20+points above a reasonable FG.
 
Even though you didn't make a starter and transfered to secondary too soon (IMO), I am surprised the yeast pooped out at 1.042. Kind of reaching here, but are you sure the measurement is accurate? Did you taste the beer at bottling? If so, was it really sweet?
 
Check your hydrometer for cracks especially around the weight. I had one do that and give me unreasonable readings like you are getting. Look very carefully, there can be cracks that you won't see without a focused inspection.

It drove me nuts when I had this problem and I swore I was too smart to fall for the "old broken hydrometer in the tailpipe trick". There's a somewhat embarrassing thread on that somewhere on this site.:p
 
I will check the hydrometer.

Sorry I didn't specify that I did bottle it. I didn't know what option I had because I already mixed the sugar into the bottling bucket with the beer when I took the reading and realized I was way of.

I guess the last few beers "just worked" out really well, especially the coffee stout. I'm going to crack one open and see what we got...

Btw, yes I always taste the beer before carb and it was a delicious stout! I was really happy until I took the readings.
 
If it was a delicious stout and not obviously too sweet, I strongly suspect your gravity reading was inaccurate. If you can get your hands on another hydrometer quickly, you could check the gravity and, if it turns out the FG is low enough, avoid having to unbottle your beer. If you can't get another hydrometer quickly, you could refrigerate the bottles for now, which would halt fermentation.
 
Checked hydrometer, no damage. Verified that water was 1.000 with it. Opened one beer, not under any crazy pressure, but still 1.040.

And yes, it was a little sweet. (I shouldn't drink while I brew, lol)

So what we know is I'm a dummy and bottled too soon, I can't leave it in the bottle, so can I put it back to ferment, or do I have to dump it?
 
Sorry about that.

There are no great options here. Personally, I would go to the LHBS, get some dry yeast, put the beer back in the fermenter, and get the beer to a proper FG. I suppose you could pasteurize beforehand if you're worried about infection. Disclaimer: I have never done what I am recommending.

You should have a fun time naming this beer.
 
Ha Ha, yeah I think that will be the only upside to this particular brew.

Going to try throwing it back in and pitching a new batch of yeast. I hate to give up on $50 of materials, sucks all the cleaning I did yesterday... Oh well.

Thanks to everyone for helping me through this one! I really appreciate the support while trying to learn this stuff!
 
bottle bombs are a real concern at this point I may not repitch yeast should be enough in suspension....
 
I put it back that evening, and didn't make it to the LHBS to get more yeast. But I did see the air lock had been bubbling so I guess they are back at it!

I'll keep an eye on the SG and track its progress... Also is there a good way to take the SG from a carboy? I've been tying a string to the hydrometer and dipping it into the carboy, so I can retrieve it...
 
Yes, I mash in a 5 gal Igloo cooler usually about 3 gallons of water, for an hour, then sparge with another 3 gals. I've been having poor efficiency rates though. I need to research steps to correct this. I'm only getting about 55%...
 
Seems the situation may not be getting any better. I was making a ESB tonight, and since I had things going decided to check the SG of the beer that will not be...

It's still @ 1.040 after 4 days...? Is it time to re-pitch, or would it be a lost cause now...

I also checked a Irish Red I made, and checked the SG when I racked to secondary 6 days ago and measured a 1.022, and it still measures a 1.022!!! Maybe something I'm doing is causing the yeast to quit when I go to secondary?

I always sanitize the carboy, and all of the racking equip, take it off the trub and careful to not aerate the fermenting beer. is there some small detail I'm missing? BTW I have really only been racking to secondary because I don't have enough equip to make another batch.... So I move it from 5gal bucket to carboy. Maybe I should just fully ferment the beers where I pour the wort?
 
It could be done at 1.022... recipe/mash temps/yeast/fermentation temps?

Racking to secondary too early can cause problems, nowadays most people on HBT do a ~1 month primary without secondary. I personally give everything 2 weeks MINIMUM on primary if I'm going to rack to secondary.

Why not just leave the first beer in the bucket and ferment the new one fully in the carboy?
 
thetmaxx said:
Seems the situation may not be getting any better. I was making a ESB tonight, and since I had things going decided to check the SG of the beer that will not be...

It's still @ 1.040 after 4 days...? Is it time to re-pitch, or would it be a lost cause now...

I also checked a Irish Red I made, and checked the SG when I racked to secondary 6 days ago and measured a 1.022, and it still measures a 1.022!!! Maybe something I'm doing is causing the yeast to quit when I go to secondary?

I always sanitize the carboy, and all of the racking equip, take it off the trub and careful to not aerate the fermenting beer. is there some small detail I'm missing? BTW I have really only been racking to secondary because I don't have enough equip to make another batch.... So I move it from 5gal bucket to carboy. Maybe I should just fully ferment the beers where I pour the wort?
Click to expand...

It's never a lost cause. Give it a taste. If it isn't overly sweet, bottle it. If it is, get some champagne yeast and pitch it and see if they can handle it.
 
I only rack to secondary because I heard it was for cleaner tastes to get the beer of the trub. I think I will stop though.

The reason I thought the red would have more to go was it only started at 1.042. So, very low abv. I did get 75% eff. Last night with a ESB, so that made me happy.

Might have to try the champagne yeast thing on the beer in question...
 
Didn't want to mess with it, but today I happened to walk in to the fermentation room and noticed bubbles on the surface of the beer in the carboys. Also noticed that today the house was warmer from the sunlight. The carboy read 72F. We keep the house at 68, and the carboy usually reads such. Is it possible the almost 4F increase kicked it off again?
 
Despite me"seeing" activity, it would appear its still at 1.040, and the red stopped at 1.022 and tastes really bitter. So tomorrow I will try to get the champagne yeast and see if the stout will go further...
 
how did you chill your wort before pitching? i didnt read that in your OP. also like the other said, don't dump your batch. always see it through. don't base your decisions untill it is finished, carbed conditioned and everthing. (even then if it has a little off flavor, try aging it a bit.)
 
Don't secondary until you hit your target gravity from now on, pulling your beer off the yeast before it's done wont help it attenuate.

Sounds like your temps are good, i'd keep it at 70-74F, maybe rouse the yeast with a swirl of the carboy.

I just had a bunch of stuck beer and i pitched some Nottingham yeast in a few of my carboys as a control and 2 weeks later the ones with the Nottingham are done, the others are not. So its cheap and it works pretty damn well. Make sure you at least rehydrate your yeast before pitching and i would consider making a starter.
 
Yeah, I'm definitely waiting longer on the secondary thing. I realized I was just following beer smith's timeline, which is always default 1 week primary, 2 week secondary... Oh well at least I realized it now.

To chill the wort I put it in the sink with ice, takes like 30 minutes to pull it down. Really sucks, thinking I might build a wort chiller before next batch.

Just swirled the carboy (I've actually read that one several times, don't know why it didn't click) and OMG it foamed up big time! and started blowing off tons of CO2! Like it was really saturated with CO2! Is this normal, or could that have been the problem?
 
I haven't re hydrated dry in over 10 years... haven't had an issue. just my 2¢ I DO shake the hell out of a bucket for 15min to oxygenate and on big Big beers add a teaspoon of yeast nutrient. I also will double pitch a dry on a beer over 1.060 og. and will usually do a 1.040 qt starter on liquid on a beer over 1.070 og. But only on the BIG stuff..
 
With dry yeast it's a good idea to rehydrate it. Apparently when yeast are dry they are real susceptible to whatever they come into contact with, before they are hydrated their cell walls will let in contaminates that will kill a bunch of the yeast and knock down your overall viability up to maybe %50.

With that said, the dry yeast has a ton of potential so even if you kill off half the yeast you still have quite a bit. This may be why some people recommend just direct pitching the whole thing. But i think that specifically applies to people who have a problem with proper sanitation techniques...

Not verbatim but pretty close to what i read in this book about yeast propagation:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381969/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

A must read to any home brewer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Salmonhouse said:
With dry yeast it's a good idea to rehydrate it. Apparently when yeast are dry they are real susceptible to whatever they come into contact with, before they are hydrated their cell walls will let in contaminates that will kill a bunch of the yeast and knock down your overall viability up to maybe %50.

With that said, the dry yeast has a ton of potential so even if you kill off half the yeast you still have quite a bit. This may be why some people recommend just direct pitching the whole thing. But i think that specifically applies to people who have a problem with proper sanitation techniques...

Not verbatim but pretty close to what i read in this book about yeast propagation:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381969/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

A must read to any home brewer.
Click to expand...

yes all this is true, 10+ years ago the dry yeast wasn't as good since Fermentis came on the market I haven't looked back http://www.fermentis.com/fo/60-Beer/60-10_home_brewing.asp

Back in the red star dark ages and even the Danstar recalls I really worried about drys and did the rehydrations. but I don't do it since QC has gotten so much better from both companys....yes there was a notty recall in the last few years but as a newby I'd say pitch it dry until your SURE you have your sanitation practices down... one extra step may cost you a batch... it's happened to me while unexperienced... even now if I pitch dry I starsan knife used to cut pack and outside of package. I do let package warm up to room temp for a day before pitching and never pitch above 75°
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Salmonhouse said:
With dry yeast it's a good idea to rehydrate it. Apparently when yeast are dry they are real susceptible to whatever they come into contact with, before they are hydrated their cell walls will let in contaminates that will kill a bunch of the yeast and knock down your overall viability up to maybe %50.
Click to expand...

i just wait untill my beer is in the fermenter and open it up and dump straight in. doesnt come into contact with anything. my hands are always sanitized and i just tear the corner of the packet. i cant really see where putting it in water first is any cleaner (not that it may not be important for other reasons)
 
At what temperature are you mashing at and is your thermometer calibrated ? Mashing at 168+F by error would yield some conversion (pretty poor, low efficiency) and probably result in stuck, poorly attenuated beer.

Don't ask me how I know this.
 
rycov said:
i just wait untill my beer is in the fermenter and open it up and dump straight in. doesnt come into contact with anything. my hands are always sanitized and i just tear the corner of the packet. i cant really see where putting it in water first is any cleaner (not that it may not be important for other reasons)
Click to expand...

That's not exactly what i was getting at. It's the sugars in your wort the nix the yeast, before they are hydrated they cant cope too well.
 
Yeah, my bad!

Admittedly, I don't understand the microbiology of it or anything, I'm just going on what Dr. Chris White of White Labs has said.
 
jfr1111 said:
At what temperature are you mashing at and is your thermometer calibrated ? Mashing at 168+F by error would yield some conversion (pretty poor, low efficiency) and probably result in stuck, poorly attenuated beer.

Don't ask me how I know this.
Click to expand...

the thermometer is brand new floating style. And my esb I hit 154 dead on w/ preheating mash tun, didn't preheat on either before that, so if anything probably a little low
 
what esb did you brew? i just did one based off of motor brewers ESB in the recipe section, hit my numbers and the next day, bam, that thing went off. although i think i used s-04, and he calls for something else. but it was the first time i had to use a blow off tube
 
you moved the beer: from primary into secondary into a bottling bucket into bottles, then back to primary, hoping it'd finish? then you have a bottling bucket & re-bottle in your future?

wow, not to discourage you but I personally would have not done all that work for a beer that started out rough, w/ a half-a$$ed grain bill.

Anyways, I would like to know how it turns out. Good luck!

I made an ok not great beer last year. it sat in a keg, i got sick of nursing/ forcing it down, so i bottled some up & tossed the rest two days ago. I waited over 3 months w/ it in the keg, so no need to give me "it could improve" song n dance. it was an overhopped kolsch w/ too much caramel malt. I'm glad I dumped much of it.
 
thetmaxx said:
Didn't want to mess with it, but today I happened to walk in to the fermentation room and noticed bubbles on the surface of the beer in the carboys. Also noticed that today the house was warmer from the sunlight. The carboy read 72F. We keep the house at 68, and the carboy usually reads such. Is it possible the almost 4F increase kicked it off again?
Click to expand...

Didn't see anyone respond to this, so I will.

Warmer beer cannot hold as much CO2 as colder beer. So as beer warms up, it will tend to release CO2, which is probably what you were seeing. If the hydrometer reading isn't changing, the beer isn't fermenting.
 
phishfood said:
Didn't see anyone respond to this, so I will.

Warmer beer cannot hold as much CO2 as colder beer. So as beer warms up, it will tend to release CO2, which is probably what you were seeing. If the hydrometer reading isn't changing, the beer isn't fermenting.
Click to expand...
Wow, hadn't even thought of that being the reason! Makes sense.

After I shook it up it has been bubbling now @ steady 68, so I will take reading again and see if anything has been happening
 

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