Cascadian Dark Ale or Indian Jones Pale Bottom Brew

Just wanting a clearer view of opinions.

hmmmm...neck and neck.

votes but no comments, so BUMP.

I don't know, but the editors of Zymurgy and BYO need to talk to each other on occasion. Reminds me of the two girls who show up at the ball wearing the same dress.

no.................................alreadyathreadonit

I am a fan of the Cascadia region but, get over it. It will never be known as Cascadia Dark Ale.

Where do I sign up to just have my vote count as "party line" for CDA in every poll? My keyboard is getting worn out from voting 15 times a day in 15 different polls about CDA

Lol, sorry, but I feel the "Cascadia or not" will give it more (or less) credibility.

Cascadian or this, or that, or the other thing, will have those opposed split 5 different ways.

babalu87 said:

no.................................alreadyathreadonit

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It's a fine line to you maybe, but get over it.

Tied.

cheezydemon3 said:

It's a fine line to you maybe, but get over it.

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You're the one asking for a clearer opinion on a beer that was first brewed in Vermont but somehoe morphed into Cascadian Ale.........................

Over it, me thinks you should be

Why is the term 'Cascadian' even an option for the name for this style? When one answers that question honestly, I think it shows why it's so polarizing.

For me, function follows form. It's a descriptive name so it needs to be descriptive and such that most people understand it right off the bat, no further explanation required. Most people don't know what 'Cascadian' means or where it is, but it is 'pretty' and adds an element of "wtf did he just say?" to it. Some people get satisfaction using words most people don't know the meaning of. They actually want people to NOT know what they're talking about when they say 'Cascadian'. I'd rather just communicate clearly. I would prefer the layperson knew what the style was just from the name (like American Strong Dark Ale). The term 'Northwestern' is fine when referring to the area...it's just inaccurate when referring to this style of beer. So again, why is this word even an option?

I think it will always be polarizing because the exact things that make some folks NOT like the term 'Cascadian' are the exact same reasons others DO like the term. The function-follows-form camp vs. the form-follows-function camp.

In the end, the term 'Cascadian' will never be as badass as the term 'Bohemian', even if it had an awesome rhapsody named after it. I kinda wish we'd stop trying to shoehorn it into the style guidelines.

Just some info

Vermont Pub and Brewery has records of their Black IPA being brewed back in 1994............. Cascadian, my arse

babalu87 said:

Just some info

Vermont Pub and Brewery has records of their Black IPA being brewed back in 1994............. Cascadian, my arse

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I'm on your side of this. What's the problem?

For someone who is so "over it" you sure are a frequent poster here.

"cascadian or NOT" is far different than "what should we call this?".

Thanks for playing.

You forgot an option on this poll:

I wanted to vote "I don't care". "Cascadian" can mean too many things. Ask a Cajun what it means and they'll tell you something vastly different than someone from the greater Northwest of the USA. I agree that the name should tell you something about the style. Dark IPA would be more descriptive.

Why do we get hung up on this stuff? That would be like me insisting on the American Brown Ale style be named after Texas where it originated. I'm sure there are folks on here that would dispute my claim that this style originated in Texas from the combination of English Brown Ale and copious amounts of American hops, but that's the story as I heard it.

3 Dog Brew said:

Dark IPA would be more descriptive.

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Aside from 'India' and 'Pale' I agree.

I'm very biased, but I like Cascadian. We call a Pilsner because that's where it came from. Do you like "Oregon Dark" better?

Calling it "Black IPA" or a "Black Pale Ale" is fracking silly. The only other names that people have come up with are brand names.

o0weno said:

I'm very biased, but I like Cascadian. We call a Pilsner because that's where it came from.

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Then why call it 'Cascadian' since it didn't come from there?

The name doesn't make sense to me either, I know the PNW is where the style supposedly was invented, but to me it should be India Black Ale...and there should be many more "india styles"

India Pale Ale
American India Pale Ale
American India Red or Amber Ale
American India Brown Ale
American India Black Ale

For the record, india brown ale kicks arse.

then they could ALSO have cascadian dark that only uses hop varieties from "cascadia" as another offshoot.......

o0weno said:

I'm very biased, but I like Cascadian. We call a Pilsner because that's where it came from. Do you like "Oregon Dark" better?

Calling it "Black IPA" or a "Black Pale Ale" is fracking silly. The only other names that people have come up with are brand names.

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Greg Noonan started brewing this beer in 1994 that they still have records for at the Vermont Brewpub.
Other than that they have had it on and off since 1989............. the only thing that came from Cascadia is this new name a few people are trying to ram down everyones throats

How about Black Ale?

cascadian dark ale is annoying, to much to say, or explain.

American dark, or American black are reflective of the style, simple and clear.

Im sure that dark, heavily hopped beers have originated from 1000 different places, and I doubt that some mook from "cascadia" was the first to think of it, so the historical origin bologna needs to be removed from the debate.

Exactly, it isn't that I want to name it, I just don't want the self appointed ****** bag prince of cascadia to.

Haters gotta hate!

Sure someone made the first batch, but wasn't everyone screwing around with beer ingredients around that time? The sheer number of breweries in the PNW making these beers and calling them Cascadian Darks will solve this debate once and for all.

I'll let marketing and time take care of this one.

I didn't poll as I like both sides...
However, my Black Moriah IPA is just that, a black version (somewhat) of my Rumplestiltskin Double IPA. It comes in a 9%abv, very hoppy 114IBU but has a little malt flavor that I usually do not want in my 'light orange' colored beer. I am going out on a limb next week and brew a Midnight Blue IPA. Or, I might even consider calling out the history books and call it the Blue Lagoon, Captain Nemo or something so I can go into the history books...

Despite my somewhat confrontational attitude on this issue I am super curious about recipes and or thoughts on how to darken a pale. Please post links!

/I'm lazy.

SQUID INK. My LHBS now carries it!

Seriously, more later...I'm busy with a client and couldn't resist.

warriorpoet said:

SQUID INK. My LHBS now carries it!

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I read this and for a few seconds I was pondering how lame this whole debate was if all the beer was made of was a dyed pale. Then I got cranky about you lying because the beers taste different.

warriorpoet said:

Seriously, more later...I'm busy with a client and couldn't resist.

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...and then I realized my chain had been yanked, and yanked well sir! :rockin:

I posted somewhere on here already the recipe I use. However, use a current one you already have for the pale. Then change out some of you base malt for Carafa Specialty I, II, or III. My shop only had number I and I used it for a great flavor and color. For a 5 gal batch I used .75 Carafa I, .75 Crystal 60 and 14lb American 2-row. I also used 2lb light DME for a whopping 1.088. For hops I got a 114IBU with Chinook, Centennial and Amarillo.
Good Luck. Glad I could fool you a little but it DID get me thinking as I CAN get squid ink here! They brew with oysters don't they?

Haters gotta hate........lol.

Would you hate it if I called your mom a central idahoan potato queen?

I can call her what I want! It doesn't matter what she actually is. Don't Hate!!

Maybe I'll just decide to rename Indian curry chicken "Mammy's potatoless New Hampshire potato salad"

Don't hate just cause that isn't what it is or where it originated!

Who cares that it isn't the rightful name if 9 out of 10 *****ebags agree?

I vote CDA. Because pale black ale sounds dumb. Plus, if Cascadia really seceded I would move there.

Oh, and nonsensical arguments aside, it's ******. Attempts at shocking language and badassery lose a lot of weight when spelled wrong. That's what the squiggly line under the word means.

This pole needs a "I don't give a **** what they call it!" option. That's where I'm at.

I don't know the whole history behind the name, but assume it's related to the hops grown in the PacNW. That said, I would think that using Centennial, Amarrillo, Warrior, etc., would be just as appropriate.

How about "West Coast Hoppy Dark Ale" or just "Hoppy Dark Ale"?

danweasel said:

I vote CDA. Because pale black ale sounds dumb. Plus, if Cascadia really seceded I would move there.

Oh, and nonsensical arguments aside, it's ******. Attempts at shocking language and badassery lose a lot of weight when spelled wrong. That's what the squiggly line under the word means.

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No spell checker here. I thank you though. I am a spelling master, I just haven't seen ****** on too many spelling bees lately....or much of anywhere for that matter.

I agree about the pale black thing. I am a grammar and logic hound as well.

(see my rant on "irregardless")

Black Pale doesn't sound dumb if you consider that it uses pale malt as its base.

Well, you don't call a stout pale, so I am sorry, that argument gets nowhere with me.

Most beers use pale malt as the base so I don't see the connection either.

cheezydemon3 said:

Well, you don't call a stout pale, so I am sorry, that argument gets nowhere with me.

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Historically, there were pale stouts, actually. That is, pale in color (relatively speaking). But stouts tended to be brewed using brown malt in general, not pale malts.

ArcaneXor said:

Black Pale doesn't sound dumb if you consider that it uses pale malt as its base.

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but it's followed by ale, insinuating that it is a pale in color ale..... which it is not.

I am all in favor of simply calling it "Hoppy Dark". Straight and to the point. Like Gose. Like Koelsch. Like Altbier. Like Bitter. Gives a lot more width in interpretation, doesn't offend anyone, and doesn't result in constructs like "Imperial American Black India Pale Ale" that make little sense. It's simply a dark ale that is hop-accentuated.

ArcaneXor said:

Historically, there were pale stouts, actually. That is, pale in color (relatively speaking). But stouts tended to be brewed using brown malt in general, not pale malts.

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Most stout recipes I have seen start "9 lbs pale 2 row".

Whatever. The only beers called pale are called that because they are pale in color, no one reads the recipe to see the base malt unless they are brewing it.

I will never buy that line of argument.

ArcaneXor said:

I am all in favor of simply calling it "Hoppy Dark". Straight and to the point. Like Gose. Like Koelsch. Like Altbier. Like Bitter. Gives a lot more width in interpretation, doesn't offend anyone, and doesn't result in constructs like "Imperial American Black India Pale Ale" that make little sense. It's simply a dark ale that is hop-accentuated.

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Excellent thought. Short and sweet.