boiling specialty grains

I have brewed all of my batches (appx. 30 extract) based recipes from beginner section of The Complete Joy of Homebrewing. These recipes instruct you to bring your specialty grains to a boild and immediatley remove from the heat and sparge. From what I have recently read, this adversely affects the beer. How much so?

I have brewed my last two batches using partial grain techniques (learned from Deathbrewers partial grain tutorial thread) and will never go back to all extract recipes. I have yet to taste these partial grain recipes. However, the extract recipes I am enjoying now, and have enjoyed, included bringing the grains to a boil. These brews always have that "homebrew," astringent, yeasty taste. Even when I am not impatient and wait 3 weeks in the carboy and 3-4 weeks in the bottle, I have this off flavor problem. Is the most probable cause from boiling the grains?

The most likely downside from boiling your specialty grains is tannin extraction.

Tannins = "astringent".

So that may very well be what you're tasting. Post back after you taste the 2 new batches and let us know if you taste a difference...

Yea, it's hard to say really. It could be, but boiling grains doesn't not guarantee astringency (i.e. decoction mash, where you do boil (some) of the grains. In a cereal mash, you are also boiling some of the grains to gelatinize ). By chance do you have one of the recipes (page number) from the CJOH book you used?

Fighting_sin said:

However, the extract recipes I am enjoying now, and have enjoyed, included bringing the grains to a boil. These brews always have that "homebrew," astringent, yeasty taste.

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Also, as a little tip... never should you utter the words "...These brews always have that homebrew, astringent, yeasty taste..." in a negative way. We are all homebrewers here, are you are just being rude.

Boiling steeping grains in extract brewing is not a good idea. Steep them at ~150F, rinse them with ~170F water and then remove them. Keep your Joy of Homebrewing book for it's nostalgic viewpoint and buy a more up to date publication for your brewing library.

Note: Boiling steeping grains in extract brewing will likely induce astringency. The water:grain ratio is high creating conditions of high heat combined with high pH leading to the extraction of tannins from the grain husks. Decoction boils are done using thick portions of a mash which keeps the pH at the normal mash range of 5.2-5.4 preventing a tannin extraction problem.

Read the second question on this page:
Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Brew Wizard - Preventing Beer Slime & Reducing Tannins But Not Flavor: Mr Wizard

Hom By chance do you have one of the recipes (page number) from the CJOH book you used? Also said:

homebrew[/I], astringent, yeasty taste..." in a negative way. We are all homebrewers here, are you are just being rude.

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Page 195 from CJOH, Elbro Nerkte Brown Ale. This is the recipe I am drinking now, and it has that off flavor, hard for me to describe, but it has that common flavor that I always associate with my homebrews, not every person's homebrews, just the majority of mine. I just got back into this after 9 years off and hoped I could avoid these off flavors, which contributed to my hanging it up originally. I am just hoping that my new partial mashing and paying attention to temp (which I never did before) will help out.

Sorry about offending anyone, I didn't think these guys would be that sensitive. It actually never crossed my mind that I was being rude. Sorry dude! Thanks for all the help. I am growing by leaps and bounds as a result of this forum. I'm very appreciative!

Fighting_sin said:

Sorry about offending anyone, I didn't think these guys would be that sensitive. It actually never crossed my mind that I was being rude. Sorry dude! Thanks for all the help. I am growing by leaps and bounds as a result of this forum. I'm very appreciative!

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Haha... you didn't offend me, i was just messing with ya. I was probably being rude for not making it clear I was joking... well.. I was sort of joking.

Fighting_sin said:

Page 195 from CJOH, Elbro Nerkte Brown Ale. This is the recipe I am drinking now, and it has that off flavor, hard for me to describe, but it has that common flavor that I always associate with my homebrews, not every person's homebrews, just the majority of mine. I just got back into this after 9 years off and hoped I could avoid these off flavors, which contributed to my hanging it up originally. I am just hoping that my new partial mashing and paying attention to temp (which I never did before) will help out.

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Interesting! I have the 3rd edition of the CJOH and here is what mine says (This is in the intermediate section, on page 196).

Charlie P. said... said:

Add the crushed crystal and black malts to 1.5 gallons water of water and let steep at 150-160 degrees for 30 minutes, then remove the grains with a strainer.

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So it sounds like he may have revised the recipe a bit, possibly due to the problem you described. Hopefully the recent batches will turn out better. Good luck!

HomebrewJeff said:

Interesting! I have the 3rd edition of the CJOH and here is what mine says (This is in the intermediate section, on page 196).Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie P. said...
Add the crushed crystal and black malts to 1.5 gallons water of water and let steep at 150-160 degrees for 30 minutes, then remove the grains with a strainer.So it sounds like he may have revised the recipe a bit, possibly due to the problem you described. Hopefully the recent batches will turn out better. Good luck!

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Actually, now that I look at it closer, this is in the first half of the intermediate section, not the beginner's section as I stated earlier, but it does say to bring the grains to a boil. It is, I believe, the second edition (1991). All of the recipes between pages 178 and 225 say to bring the specialty grains to a boil. I brewed exclusively from these recipes for 4 years in the late '90's. I was never totally satisfied with the brews. Some were better than others, but I just assumed that unless I brewed all grain, I would never get that perfect brew. The equipment cost and science involved in all grain brewing intimidated me. Partial mashes have changed it all!!! The perfect bridge to all grain brewing.

The second half of the intermediate section does mention steeping the grains to temps below 170. I just never got that far for some reason. I was in my late teens and early twenties, there were plenty of distractions in my life at the time!

I'll let you know how these 2 new recipes turn out in a couple of weeks! I'm doing another partial mash next weekend too!