cooper

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Just wondering what would be everyone's recommendation on how much Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulfate to add to distilled water for general brewing.

I've done a little bit of research and most of the guidance I've seen (thank you Yooper, and ajdelange) recommends 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride to 5 gallons of water and around 2% of the grain bill to acid malt.

Light beers are going to need a little less CaCL2 (half tsp) and possibly a little more acid malt ~3%

Darker beers are going to skip the acid malt (especially if they have a good amount of crystal malt in the recipe because this will add to the acidity of the mash).

Hop heavy beers are going to need 1 tsp of CaCL2 as well as 1 tsp of CaSO4 (Gypsum)

So my question is it advisable to use all distilled water?

ajdelange

Recipes 

The the half tsp. for some light beers doesn't apply to all light beers. It applies to those for which you want low mineral content. The classic example is Bohemian Pilsner where very low mineral water is a definite part of the profile but it seems that most lagers (at least in my experience) benefit from a low mineral water.

The reason I specified as much as half a tsp. for these beers is that almost all beers, especially delicate pale ones, seems to benefit from some chloride. A Boh Pils made with half a tsp would have more calcium and more chloride than a traditional Boh Pils but is, IMO, a more enjoyable beer.

You can brew beer with 100% distilled water as the malt contains enough minerals to serve the various enzymes' co factor needs and indeed the Congress Mash which serves in the hombrewers world as the 100% efficiency reference is a distilled water mash. But a beer made with at least some calcium and some chloride is going to be a better beer than one made with none.

cooper

Recipes 

Thanks for the info. I'm really trying to get a handle on hitting target PH levels and getting the water right for the type of beer that I want to brew. I like the idea of starting off with zero's in my water and then adding stuff to get it where it needs to be. I also NEED to purchase a quality PH tester as I'm getting into this.

What kind of water calculator do you recommend for setting the water profile up? I've seen a few but wanted to see what other people are actually using.

ajdelange

Recipes 

That certainly makes the problem easier as it is simpler to figure out how much of something to add than to try to figure out how much of something you have actually removed. Many home (and pro) brewers are moving towards this approach facilitated by the ready availability of relatively high volume relatively low cost RO (sufficient) and/or DI (if you really want to start with 0) units. The reef aquarium hobby is a big source for these.

As it turns out it isn't water that sets mash pH so much as the malts (and acids or alkali the brewer adds) that determines mash pH. Alkalinity in the water pulls pH up and hardness in the water pulls it down. If you are working with RO/DI water you won't have either of those in appreciable quantity. You will usually want to add some calcium but it has a rather minor effect on pH (relative to alkalinity). You will be adding minerals for stylistic considerations - not pH adjustment and adjusting pH with acid or base determining the adjustment from a pH meter reading. And yes, a pH meter is one of the most important tools in a brewers kit.

I leave that to others to answer as I use my own spreadsheet for the relatively rare occasion on which I want to do something unusual or to answer questions posted here. Any of the many out there will do just fine as long as you don't ask them to deal with carbonate or bicarbonate and take their mash pH predictions with a grain of salt which you can do as you will be checking mash pH with a meter. This isn't to say that they don't do a decent job of predicting mash pH in many cases. One will do a better job than another depending on how well its model represents your actual brewing conditions. Where the calculators/spreadsheets really show their worth is as teaching tools. They may not predict your mash pH that accurately but they do so approximately and clearly illustrate what the effects of, for example, more or less calcium in the mash are.

cooper

Recipes 

Thanks for the responses AJ, I appreciate all your help. I want to do a Bavarian Hefe and here is the grain bill:

-- 5.5 lbs. Weyermann Pale Wheat malt
-- 4 lbs German Pilsner malt

-- 1 oz Tettnang (60 min)

WYEAST #3068 WEIHENSTEPHAN WEIZEN.

Mash Schedule as follows:
Protein Rest: 122° F for 20 minutes
Beta Sacch’ Rest: 149° F for 30 minutes
Alpha Sacch’ Rest: 158 F for 30 minutes
Mashout: 170° F for 10 minutes

Or I could:
Sacch’ Rest: 152° F for 60 minutes
Mashout: 170° F for 10 minutes

So how much Calcium Chloride and Acid Malt would I need to use as a baseline, and then test with a PH meter while mashing? Based on that grain bill, how would I calculate what 3% of the mash would be for the Acid Malt? And, would I be good to start with 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride or would I need maybe half a tsp and is it better to add this to the strike water or just after dough-in or does it matter? (I realize I need to get a brew water sheet and start inputing numbers but I'm kind of new at using one of those so I dont really know where to start at this point)

I appreciate all your guys' responses and all the help as well.

ajdelange

Recipes 

You could follow the Primer here but I personally would use half the calcium chloride. IOW if you prepare 10 gal of water 1 tsp of calcium chloride should be enough. And add it to the water. That way you are sure it is mixed in thoroughly with the grain (assuming you dough in thoroughly as I'm sure you do). As for the sauermalz I'd use 2% i.e. 0.02*16*(5.5 + 4) Oz to start. Remember that sauermalz initially gives a low pH reading so wait a while before deciding whether you need to add another 1% sauermalz.

cooper

Recipes 

AJ,

This is great stuff and I appreciate you helping me out with this. I'll start with DI water and add half a tsp for every five gallons of water and 3.04 oz of sauermalz to the grain bill; making sure to test the PH about 15 mins into the mash.

cooper

Recipes 

What mash steps do most everyone use for their Hefe? I've read that some people do the 122/149/158 and then I've read where people do the 110/150/168. I know the 110 is supposed to help as an acid rest and then 122 range is the protein rest, but I've read that most malts nowadays are so well modified that they don't need the protein rest and people have had just as good results by doing straight to the sacc rest. Is this true in your guys' experiences?

ajdelange

Recipes 

I've always done them starting with a ferulic acid rest at 122 °F followed by a protein rest at 127. From there I pull the first decoction pausing at 159 °F on the way to boiling it. That gets returned to raise the rest mash to saccharification temp of 149 °F. From that I pull the second decoction again pausing at 159 °F on the way to the boil. The second decoction raises the rest mash to 158°F and that is held for a few minutes before applying heat to raise to 172 °F for mashout. I'm pretty sure this was derived from Eric Warner's book on wheat beers in the AHA series. It has always worked out well for me and has probably won me more ribbons that anything else I brew. The secret is the Weihenstephan 68 (Wyeast 3068) yeast strain.

kpot2004

Recipes 

I'm trying to keep water chemistry as simple as possible for my first few batches and I like this as a general guide for starting out, my only question would be about beers that don't necessarily fall under those categories like say a brown ale or certain Belgians beers? Would those be considered under darker beers?

I posted my ward labs report here a while back and it was bad enough that everyone thought it would be easier to just start from distilled so that's what I am planning to do.