Oy: Too Much Baking Soda

(Reposting this from the Beginners forum since it seems like a more appropriate question for Brew Science.)

After 30 batches, I might finally have a dumper. I may have completely ruined my Centennial Blonde.

Eager to try out my brand new Milwaukee 102 pH meter, I decided to build my water from scratch using distilled water and EZ Water. For a 2.5 gallon batch, this was my water profile:

4.5 gallons distilled water
Calcium: 60
Magnesium: 10
Sodium: 31
Chloride: 82
Sulfate: 76
Chloride/Sulfate ratio: 1.08

To achieve this, I used 1 gram Gypsum, 2.9 grams Calcium Chloride, 1.9 grams Epsom salt, and 1.9 grams Baking Soda. I also added one ounce of acidulated malt. EZ Water estimated a pH of 5.43.

I mashed in, made my additions and took my first pH reading 10 minutes in (cooled to room temperature and measured on a calibrated meter). My pH read 5.97. I panicked a bit - this was well above the calculated estimate. I added another ounce of acidulated malt and (here's my first mistake) approx 1.5 ml of lactic acid.

When I took my next reading five minutes later, I really flipped. It had shot all the way down to 4.81. By this point, I was cursing up a storm. This was supposed to be a simple brew in between my Belgian Dark Strong and the Rye Pale Ale I'm brewing this coming weekend.

Ready for the biggie? I did some quick calculations and added another 4.5 grams of baking soda. Stirred, closed it up and didn't take another reading until the end of my 75 minute mash, which read a respectable 5.77.

I took a gravity tonight, 13 days in. It's super clear and got all the way down to 1.006 from 1.037. Unfortunately, it tastes like ****. I'm 99% sure it's the baking soda I'm tasting.

Is there any way at all this turns out OK, or maybe there's something else I can do? If not, I'm ready to dump it with a heavy heart.

Sorry for the long winded post. Thanks guys.

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I guess when I have a beer I am unsure about, and there has been one, I still bottled and gave it to the person it was brewed for so they could try it, but I also tried it again and didn't hate it as much after it was carbonated. I hated it through every sample I took.

4.5 grams of baking soda isn't a lot, actually. I think I added 20 grams of brewers chalk (alternative to baking soda) to my stout to get it to unstick from fermentation (long story) and it doesn't taste like ****. I would keep it, bottle it, see what happens.

Hello said:

4.5 grams of baking soda isn't a lot, actually. I think I added 20 grams of brewers chalk (alternative to baking soda) to my stout to get it to unstick from fermentation (long story) and it doesn't taste like ****. I would keep it, bottle it, see what happens.

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Thanks for the advice. Actually, all in all, it was about 6.4 grams total, and this is in a 2.5 gallon batch. I'm glad your stout worked out. Just not sure there's much in a 4% abv blonde ale for the taste to hide behind.


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In a recipe like centennial blonde, you'll probably never need to add alkalinity, especially if building from RO water - if anything, you're probably good with just aciduated malt and CaCl2 and maybe some gypsum.

JonM said:

In a recipe like centennial blonde, you'll probably never need to add alkalinity, especially if building from RO water - if anything, you're probably good with just aciduated malt and CaCl2 and maybe some gypsum.

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You're likely right. I think my original reasoning for including baking soda was to get some Sodium in the water and also to help raise the pH to at least 5.4. EZ Water had been figuring my pH to be lower than that.

So is there any way this will age out or anything I could add at this late stage that will help out?

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Sodium bicarbonate doesn't have a very strong flavor on its own. All carbonated beverages have some bicarbonate in them, because dissolved CO2 exists in an equilibrium reaction with bicarbonate.

There are a few things you can do to change the concentration of bicarbonate in a solution. Bicarbonate is less soluble in warm water than in cold. It can also precipitate in the presence of CO2. And if you raise the pH, it will form calcium carbonate and precipitate out of solution.

You could try checking the pH and adding a bit of some base (obviously not baking soda), but that's probably the last thing I'd try.

You could try warming your beer to about 90-100 degrees F just prior to racking to your bottling bucket or keg. This temperature will drop out some of the bicarbonate, without significantly affecting your yeast. The yeast are done fermenting at this point, so they won't give you any off flavors.

And finally, you could just go ahead and carbonate it and see how that affects the flavor. Who knows, it could end up totally fine!

invivoSaccharomyces said:

You could try warming your beer to about 90-100 degrees F just prior to racking to your bottling bucket or keg. This temperature will drop out some of the bicarbonate, without significantly affecting your yeast. The yeast are done fermenting at this point, so they won't give you any off flavors.

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Hey, thanks for all the useful info! If I wanted to go the route of raising the temperature, how long would you suggest holding it at that temp? I don't think I'll need to cold crash this batch if I keep it - I can't believe how clear it dropped.



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JonM said:

In a recipe like centennial blonde, you'll probably never need to add alkalinity, especially if building from RO water - if anything, you're probably good with just aciduated malt and CaCl2 and maybe some gypsum.

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All I ever add to light/hoppy beers are what you stated. I use RO

2-3% aciduated malt
1 tsp/5 gal Cacl2
1 tsp gypsum

Seems to put you right at or around 5.2-5.3

It wouldn't take long. Solubility chemistry usually happens pretty fast on our time scales. 15 minutes ought to give you all the difference you're going to see.

invivoSaccharomyces said:

It wouldn't take long. Solubility chemistry usually happens pretty fast on our time scales. 15 minutes ought to give you all the difference you're going to see.

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Awesome. I'll definitely try this. Hopefully between the higher temp and the CO2 in bottling I'll wind up with something drinkable.

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Update: I could only get the beer up to 85 degrees. Got set up to bottle and took one more sample. Still tasted like crap.

Executive decision: Dumped. Re-brew the next day.

Sad to see it go to waste but I don't regret it. The next day's brew went fantastic and my pH was right in range. It's going to turn out really nice, I think.

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invivoSaccharomyces said:

It wouldn't take long. Solubility chemistry usually happens pretty fast on our time scales. 15 minutes ought to give you all the difference you're going to see.

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Not where carbonate and bicarbonate are involved. They can take a long time to react. This is a potential reason that so many guys starting out with a pH meter, some acid (lactic) and some base (bicarbonate) wind up chasing their tails, as apparently OP did, in trying to hit proper mash pH. Even without bicarbonate being involved it takes a long time to reach equilibrium. In my brewing last Moday pH was 5.33 a few minutes after dough-in. Half an hour later it was 5.44. If you have Palmer's new book you can see how the titration curves for malts shift over a period of half an hour.

ajdelange said:

Not where carbonate and bicarbonate are involved. They can take a long time to react. This is a potential reason that so many guys starting out with a pH meter, some acid (lactic) and some base (bicarbonate) wind up chasing their tails, as apparently OP did, in trying to hit proper mash pH. Even without bicarbonate being involved it takes a long time to reach equilibrium. In my brewing last Moday pH was 5.33 a few minutes after dough-in. Half an hour later it was 5.44. If you have Palmer's new book you can see how the titration curves for malts shift over a period of half an hour.

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Welp, if that's the case, how do you make adjustments on the fly? At what point in the mash is it pointless to keep adjusting?

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Ilan34 said:

Welp, if that's the case, how do you make adjustments on the fly?

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You don't if at all possible. When doing a new brew you should, if you don't have good malt models for a pH predictor, make test mashes until you find the acid additions that work. If, in an actual mash, you find you are off a bit then it is often best to just note that and correct the next time you brew. If it is an elaborate program like a decoction you may have a bit more flexibility. In the brew session I mentioned earlier I accidntally put Wyermans pneumatic pils into the pH predictor when I was actually using the floor pils and got a sauemalz addition that was too small. When I noticed pH was too high after returning the first decoction I had plenty of time to grind up some more sauermalz and add it to the second decoction.

Ilan34 said:

At what point in the mash is it pointless to keep adjusting?

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I guess its never too late as you probably won't go so far as to denature an enzyme but remember that heat is degrading them too. With experience you will be able to judge the likely asymptote of a series of pH reading and that lets you get a correction going sooner than waiting the full half hour.
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241 said:

All I ever add to light/hoppy beers are what you stated. I use RO

2-3% aciduated malt
1 tsp/5 gal Cacl2
1 tsp gypsum

Seems to put you right at or around 5.2-5.3

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What is 2-3% aciduated malt ?
In 5 Gallons what does that work out to be?

I have RODI and I am doing an extract brew right now

The above is what was suggested, but not listing the malt

SnowRaven, as mentioned in the other thread, aciduated would not apply unless you were doing a partial mash.

mchrispen said:

SnowRaven, as mentioned in the other thread, aciduated would not apply unless you were doing a partial mash.

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Got it

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/i...water-profile-suggestions-455385/#post5848408

6.4g of baking soda in a 2.5 gal batch is a ton of sodium. Could that be what the off flavor was?

JKoravos said:

6.4g of baking soda in a 2.5 gal batch is a ton of sodium. Could that be what the off flavor was?

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Yeah, most likely. Never doing that again.