HARD water, what should I do (water report)?

Here are the results of my water from the local authority website:

7.58 pH
280 Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm

19.5 Sodium, Na
161 Calcium, Ca
17.8 Magnesium, Mg
227 Total Hardness, CaCO3
74 Sulfate, SO4-S
34 Chloride, Cl
158 Total Alkalinity, CaCO3
< 0.01 Total Iron, Fe

Just wondering where I am as far as a starting point. The one thing that jumps out is that I have pretty hard water. Should I be adjusting for most beers?

This isn't really 'starting point' water. There are some styles you could brew with it but there are many you can't. It has very high sulfate (232 mg/L) which makes it suitable for UK styles ales but totally unsuitable for many lagers etc. The alkalinity is also quite high but there is so much more calcium than bicarbonate that simply heating the water should drop a lot of that.

Because if the high calcium, bicarbonate and sulfate most of the adjusting you will do will be adjusting down and that is most easily done by dilution with RO water or by using RO water by itself. Were this my water I would give serious consideration to use of RO alone but that's the way I tend to lean because of the simplicity and repeatability of that approach.

So what's the cheapest / best method for getting RO water? The systems look like they're in the $150 range on the cheap side.

gifty74 said:

So what's the cheapest / best method for getting RO water? The systems look like they're in the $150 range on the cheap side.

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Around here there is a vending machine outside every gas station and grocery store. I bring a couple of those blue 5-gallon jugs and fill them for a buck each.

With water like that, I'd imagine you can find something similar.

GotPushrods said:

Around here there is a vending machine outside every gas station and grocery store. I bring a couple of those blue 5-gallon jugs and fill them for a buck each.

With water like that, I'd imagine you can find something similar.

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Cool. And I'm assuming that's distilled water? One in the same? Most 'fill it yourself' stations I've seen around me are from the spring water guys, which is not RO/Distilled.

gifty74 said:

Cool. And I'm assuming that's distilled water? One in the same? Most 'fill it yourself' stations I've seen around me are from the spring water guys, which is not RO/Distilled.

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Reverse Osmosis (RO) is not the same as distilled, but as far is brewing is concerned might as well be. A well functioning system will leave you with under 5% of most ions you started with. The difference between 2 ppm and 5 ppm to a brewer rounds to 0.

The machine might have a bottled water company's name on the side, but it is probably a RO machine. Take a look next time you see one, it will probably detail the process with a nice illustration on the front panel. I use Glacier machines, but they're very much RO.

Ok, was just informed that they added a new pumping station and put our community on the alternate water supply. He says it's much softer, although it doesn't feel like it. Here's the specs for my water as of now:

7.5 pH
210 Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm

11.8 Sodium, Na
98 Calcium, Ca
7.8 Magnesium, Mg
111 Total Hardness, CaCO3
46 Sulfate, SO4
27 Chloride, Cl
60 Total Alkalinity, CaCO3
< 0.01 Total Iron, Fe

Big difference from what I thought I had. Lot of things half or even more; alkalinity, sodium, and most notably hardness. He also said Bicarbonate hardness is approx. 77 mg/L. So, I'm guessing these numbers look a bit better?

Yes, that's a lot better. Much more nominal (if you can be more nominal). Still pretty hard though that isn't a bad thing unless you are doing one of the soft water beers.

Your carbonate hardness is your alkalinity so its value is 60 (not that that matters much) so I think he, whoever he is, probably meant your bicarbonate ion content which is approximately 73 mg/L.

There is a large error in the reported information. So a double check on the information is required. With the given information, that is a workable water source for some styles. At least the Flavor ions (Na, Mg, SO4 and Cl) are relatively low, as reported.

Looks OK to me. 2.6/2.9 cations/anions. I've seen lots worse.

mabrungard said:

There is a large error in the reported information. So a double check on the information is required. With the given information, that is a workable water source for some styles. At least the Flavor ions (Na, Mg, SO4 and Cl) are relatively low, as reported.

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What's the large error, or what doesn't look right?

So suffice it to say, this water would be pretty good for the middle of the range color beers like IPA, 2xIPA, Belgians, etc, as is, with no adjustment. And only adjust for the darker stouts and porters to get the alkalinity up some to balance the more acidic malts. This would be the simplified version for adjusting the water on brew day.

The Ca and Mg numbers are hardness as CaCO3, so the balance of the report looks alright.

The sulfate appears to be measured differently between the two. The first one is "As S" (real SO4 = 222), but the second report just says "SO4". If this really is measured as SO4, it is 46 and was cut by about 80%, while everything else was cut by around half. This is suspicious, but who knows. If that second report means "SO4-S", it's actually 138. More in line, but still high for many styles.

With an alkalinity of 60, you're still going to need a little acid for grists under, say, 5-15% crystal malt, depending on type. That's assuming you don't dilute away that sulfate and have the entire 60.

No, "Sulfate", as they state on the report, went from 74 down to 46. It should be SO4, not -S like the first one lists. They are the same and reported on the same line on the report, one for each water source. The Hardness dropped from 227 to 111, which seems in line with how everything else dropped.

Its far from balanced and the hardness value does not conform to the Ca and Mg concentrations. 98 ppm Ca and 7.8 ppm Mg is a lot harder than 111 ppm hardness as CaCO3. Some of those values might be correct, but which ones?

Well, to eliminate some of the confusion, I've attached the actual report. I've been switched from the Conestoga Plant, now on the Susquehanna. I might have misrepresented Hardness. It does not specify it "as CaCO3". I must have assumed that, but maybe they're reporting it as some other value?

View attachment 2011_water_analysis_report.pdf

gifty74 said:

Well, to eliminate some of the confusion, I've attached the actual report. I've been switched from the Conestoga Plant, now on the Susquehanna. I might have misrepresented Hardness. It does not specify it "as CaCO3". I must have assumed that, but maybe they're reporting it as some other value?

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I don't know where the "-S" came from in the first post, but it appears they are just as SO4, so take them for what they are.

I suspect the Calcium hardness is as CaCO3. It cannot be ppm Ca or the hardness would go much higher than stated.

They give Ca (as CaCO3) as 98 and Total (this must be total, no idea what else it would be) as 111. Mg (as CaCO3) will be 13.

Ca ppm = 39
Mg ppm = 3

The manager of our local water authority responded by saying "I report as "total hardness" in milligrams/liter (same as PPM, parts-per-million). Calcium carbonate hardness is a smaller number."

'Total Hardness' is the equivalence of calcium plus the equivalence of magnesium multiplied by 50. If there is bicarbonate or carbonate or both present the 'temporary hardness' is the amount of calcium which will be removed by coalescing with the bicarbonate and carbonate. If the calcium is less than the bicarbonate then the temporary hardness is the calcium equivalence multiplied by 50. If the alkalinity is higher than the calcium then the temporary hardness is the alkalinity (which is the equivalence of the acid required to move the sample pH to about 4.5 multiplied by 50.

The term 'carbonate hardness' isn't much used in the US but in Europe KH (Karbonathärte) is commonly used to mean the alkalinity even though the water may contain no calcium or magnesium i.e. no hardness at all.