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Old 12-15-2013, 05:52 PM   #1
maplemontbrew
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Default Chloride-Sulphate ratio

My water profile sulphate ppm is 20 and chloride ppm is 11.3. I am brewing a hefe using a total of 8 gallons (mash + sparge) and would like to get this ratio as close to 1 as possible. According to Beersmith I need to add 0.2 grams of calcium chloride, but I'm not sure if I add it to the total water volume, mash volume or sparge volume.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Old 12-15-2013, 07:52 PM   #2
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The best advice is to forget that you ever heard about this chloride/sulfate ratio thing. A good sulfate level for a Hefeweizen is 0 as you will probably be using Hallertauer or a similar hop. Hops are to be muted in a hefe and low sulfate, as low as you can get it, is a way to do this.

You might want to increase chloride a little as that will amplify the sweetness and body of the beer a bit.

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Old 12-15-2013, 10:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange
The best advice is to forget that you ever heard about this chloride/sulfate ratio thing. A good sulfate level for a Hefeweizen is 0 as you will probably be using Hallertauer or a similar hop. Hops are to be muted in a hefe and low sulfate, as low as you can get it, is a way to do this. You might want to increase chloride a little as that will amplify the sweetness and body of the beer a bit.
Ok. Tks for advice
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange
The best advice is to forget that you ever heard about this chloride/sulfate ratio thing. A good sulfate level for a Hefeweizen is 0 as you will probably be using Hallertauer or a similar hop. Hops are to be muted in a hefe and low sulfate, as low as you can get it, is a way to do this. You might want to increase chloride a little as that will amplify the sweetness and body of the beer a bit.
Oops back to that question. When I raise the chloride do add it to the sparge and mash water?
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:21 AM   #5
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I've always thought it simpler to treat all the water the same way. You can't always do that practically though. In any case the goal here is to get the chloride in the finished beer up a bit - not terribly high (30 - 50 ppm?) and so I'd add it to mash and sparge water.

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Old 12-16-2013, 12:36 AM   #6
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without getting looking up exact amounts you won't be far off from being neutral. You don't have a lot of sulphates or chloride ions in your water to start with. Like if you look at burton water you'll see that's on the extreme. Your chloride to sulphates are fine for what you're brewing. I'd be more concerned about having enough Ca ions. I'm guessing your Ca levels are low as well? and if that's the case I'd look at adding a mixture of Calcium chloride and calcium sulphate to and then look for that balance while bringing the Ca levels up. Add them directly to the mash.

This is just what I do.

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Old 12-16-2013, 02:08 AM   #7
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I'd really stay away from the sulfate until you have experimented with it in tasting in the glass and demonstrated to yourself that it isn't detrimental. Yes, wheat beers are brewed with all kinds of water but the best ones are done with very little sulfate. Obviously there is some opinion here but mine certainly improved when I got all the sulfate out. Noble hops and sulfate just don't mix. The hops in a wheat beer are like the violas in the orchestra. You shouldn't really hear them but they have to be there.

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Old 12-16-2013, 02:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange
I'd really stay away from the sulfate until you have experimented with it in tasting in the glass and demonstrated to yourself that it isn't detrimental. Yes, wheat beers are brewed with all kinds of water but the best ones are done with very little sulfate. Obviously there is some opinion here but mine certainly improved when I got all the sulfate out. Noble hops and sulfate just don't mix. The hops in a wheat beer are like the violas in the orchestra. You shouldn't really hear them but they have to be there.
Liked that last comparison. Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
I'd really stay away from the sulfate until you have experimented with it in tasting in the glass and demonstrated to yourself that it isn't detrimental. Yes, wheat beers are brewed with all kinds of water but the best ones are done with very little sulfate. Obviously there is some opinion here but mine certainly improved when I got all the sulfate out. Noble hops and sulfate just don't mix. The hops in a wheat beer are like the violas in the orchestra. You shouldn't really hear them but they have to be there.

I originally posted my sulphate ppm as 20 and chloride ppm as 11.3. After testing at Wards I'm now at 6 ppm sulphate and 11 ppm chloride. Not sure why the difference but is the sulphate still high for a hefe and, if so, how do I go about reducing it?
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #10
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My review of Southern Bavarian waters (where the best Hefeweizens are from), shows that low sulfate is a typical condition across the region. A surprising result of the review and something that blows the ratio to pieces is that their water often has twice the sulfate as chloride. But both of those ions are at low concentration ~20ppm SO4 and ~10ppm Cl. I don't think that either of those ions is going to play much of a factor in the flavor of the resulting beer. They are firmly in the background where they should be!

AHA members will be able to read more about Southern Bavarian waters in the Mar/Apr 2014 issue of Zymurgy.

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